Are 40' 10k, 1:30 half and 3:10 marathon really equivalent performances?

Interesting. Thanks! My injuries were pure overuse, too much too soon type. My body is still adapting to my new hobby I suppose. Won't try to change my form and run forefoot, but I am doing a lot more strength training and core which helps.

Looks like for people over 40 their edge is the endurance: I'm sure a 41:xx 25 yo won't run 3:10, conversely a 3:10 40 yo may not be under 40' for 10k.

Took note of all your suggestions...greatly appreciated.

Same? wrote:

Looks like for people over 40 their edge is the endurance: I'm sure a 41:xx 25 yo won't run 3:10, conversely a 3:10 40 yo may not be under 40' for 10k.

Took note of all your suggestions...greatly appreciated.

I don't think age has as much to do with it as the type of training. Last summer at 45 I got injured in july and only ran 10 times over the next 12 weeks. I could still run 18:40 for 5k. I would have been lucky to finish a marathon let alone get remotely close to 3:02 that McMillan calculates. It's really more about the amount of mileage you are doing at whatever age.

Its realistic if you've fully developed your aerobic

I'd recommend more than a 20 minute "tempo" run. Personally, I've always found that the best pace to use for a tempo workout is something right around your 10 mile pace. If you haven't raced 10 miles before, I guess try to estimate what your pace would be. If you do 3x3 mile workouts at 10 mile pace with minimal rest (preferably 1-2 minutes, if you can do it), it will not only help you be able to run hard for a long period of time, but it's an amazing workout mentally since you know the whole time how much the 3rd interval is going to suck. Try some 2x3s or 3x2s before you jump into 3x3s, but if you can get up to having a steady month of something roughly equivalent to a 3x3 once a week and you're really rocking the workouts, you're going to have that top-end fitness you need.

As for the 18-20 milers, work up slowly, don't jump in too deep too fast, but to run a good marathon, you have to be really comfortable running for 20 miles at the drop of a hat. Just take them slow while you build up and throw in a couple faster long runs when you're getting closer to the actual race. The tempo runs are what give you the ability to run hard for a long time anyway.

that is very close to my times a few years ago when I ran 18:30, 39:05, half mar @ 1:27:49 summer half marathon and 3:10

marathon in fall at age 54. Max mileage about 40-45. So as a

youngster--go for it.

Same? wrote:

Looks like it according to most online calculators, but just wanted a quick reality check from those with similar race times.

Yes this is not fast, but it's a good enough goal for the non-talented late 20s early 30s male (like me).

I've run 19:22 for the 5k last yr off 25mpw, planning to run about 35mpw for train for the 10k w/ 40' goal (April), close to 40mpw for the half w/ 1:30 goal in June and then will start marathon training for a fall. Assuming that progression can be done, is 3:10 a reasonable goal for the Fall?

thx

Coincidentally, I am as slow as you are with very similar times as these. Before I started having chronic lower leg/foot injuries which ended distance training (now I do more sprints/track meets, which suits my body type better) I had the following PRs:

Age 30

5k = 18:48

10k = 39:01

half = 1:32

full = 3:12

All of these times came within 4 months of each other, so very relevant to your post. I honestly probably over-reached on the marathon time, but lucked out with perfect weather and a fast course (Columbus, OH) and locked in with the 3:10 pace group for most of the race. I usually weigh in the 175lb range (at 5'10", low body fat), but dropped down to 160 for the marathon.

It is obviously "reasonable" but you will need to up your mileage. I would recommend in addition to a long run, you do a second "semi-long-run" of 14-15 miles during the week as well. Also focus on some serious mile repeat sessions on the track to make sure you maintain and sharpen your speed. Good luck!

Age -43

6'0 170lbs

-41:30 (did not go all out)

-1:30:20 on a day that went perfect on a relatively hilly course.

-3:12:50 on a day where I felt flat. 3 days later I had a cold, I think it started to drain me about race time.

-These were set within 4 mos of each other.

-I've been running 3 yrs with each year building on year before. I clearly have avg Joe talent at best.

-All those times were set during marathon training with the 1/2 5 weeks prior to the marathon with limited taper.

Based on my experience those times are comparable BUT! I think the key and the hardest time to hit is the Marathon (I know, no sh*t). I ran 50-55 mpw for about 14 weeks off a base where I ran 30-40 mpw for 4 mos prior. If you have a good marathon training schedule and you work hard and hit the training paces you can knock off the above times. I used the Phitzinger 18 week 55m peak plan.

Same? wrote:

Thanks for all the constructive posts so far. Looks like a better suite of goals would be 40:00, 1:30 and 3:15-3:16 for my age and experience.

7:30 pace feels great actually, my HR stays below 85% (170). do you advise not making long runs epic by adding midweek medium long runs?

ex 40mpw with 10 Wed / 12 Sun (I run 5x wk)

45mpw with 11 Wed / 14 Sun

50mpw with 12 Wed / 16 Sun?

If you're running 19something for 5K and 40 for 10K off 25miles per week you will NOT have any trouble hitting 3:10 if you get your mileage to 45mpw for a significant amount of time. Back in my late 30's I ran multiple 3:01 - 3:10 marathons with a 39:48 10K PR and 1:29something 1/2 PR off of about 40mpw. It wasn't till I increased my mileage up to the 70mpw range for more than a year that I got a significant drop in times.

Age 45. 1 mile - 5:31, 5k - 19:45 10K - 41:30, HM - 1:29:35, M - 3:22:10

All times within the last two years, with the HM last summer after good training including a lot of fast tempo runs. Infrequent racer. BMI ~ 25 (stocky). 55 mpw max. The 10k is soft and I probably would have been right at 40 based on workouts if I'd have run one in August this year.

My fat turns to concrete after 20 miles during the marathon with that little mileage though my 4 to 5 runs from 18 - 24 miles were all good. Based upon friends' performances, I'd recommend trying Daniels 70 mpw if possible to try to get that 3:10.

I think that it's just all about what kind of training you're doing. Within the past year I ran 37:50 in the 10k, 1:23 in the 1/2, and 3:09 in the marathon (29 year old female), and I wouldn't say that I had a particularly "bad day" in the marathon. I was running decent mileage (60ish), but only had one run at 20 or longer, so . . . if you're serious about it, get those long runs in!!!

According to McMillan's calc, 40min 10 is equivalent to 1:29 half and 3:07:43 marathon.

The 1/2 is to slow

for me [50] I can do 130 but can't touch the 40 10k time and the marthon is way to fast

Crow with Knife wrote:

If you're running 19something for 5K and 40 for 10K off 25miles per week you will NOT have any trouble hitting 3:10 if you get your mileage to 45mpw for a significant amount of time. Back in my late 30's I ran multiple 3:01 - 3:10 marathons with a 39:48 10K PR and 1:29something 1/2 PR off of about 40mpw. It wasn't till I increased my mileage up to the 70mpw range for more than a year that I got a significant drop in times.

I'll quote my own post since people are chiming in with 1:23 1/2 and 3:09 full times (WTF?). To me that means either inappropriate training or injury-limited.

After a couple years of training near 70mpw my times became:

5k - 18:22, 10K - 37:47, 1/2 - 1:22:47, Marathon - 2:54:08

These times were ALL set in 2010 at the age of 49. Those times are also All-time PR's - not AG PR's.I've been a runner, and have run over 30 marathons, for about 17 years so I wasn't some newbie who had a very steep learning curve. Just didn't do enough mileage or the right training in the past. Still not doing enough mileage or eating correctly to run my "best" marathon.

I conceded that my training wasn't probably marathon-specific, as I only did one really long run. The point I was trying to make was that getting in the really long runs at the right pace are going to be really important for him.

I am amazed by the high quality of responses this thread I received, it's great and will definitely bookmark.

Looks like the biggest challenge will be getting to the start of the marathon uninjured and w/ appropriate training. I have a few specific additional questions.

Background info: I'm 5'7.5, 149lbs, late 20s. 2010 PR: 5k 19:22, 10k 42' (not all out), half 1:33 (not really all out my goal was 1:40, misjudged pace)

1) would dropping pounds to get under 140 help for the marathon? I was 187.5lbs less than two years ago but now I'm pretty stable in the 147-150lbs range

2) do I need to run more than 5 days a week? (seems like my sweet spot)

2bis) when adding mileage why not adding doubles on the evening of tempos/intervals, to still get 2 rest days?

3) comment this schedule (this is where I will be when training for 10k, based on 30mpw)

Mon Off

Tue intervals or progressive long runs (6 mi total inc. wu+cd) am + core/legs strengthening in the evening

Wed recovery run (4mi)

Thu tempo run (6mi incl. wu and cd) am + core/legs strengthening in the evening

Fri Off

Sat easy 4mi

Sun long run 10mi am + core/legs strengthening in the evening

3bis) anyone else likes to do core and strength the eve of the hard runs, rather than on easy days?

4) How do I build up my schedule from there?

2 hard runs + 1 long run version:

35 as 0/7/4/7/0/5/12

40 as 0/8/4/8/0/6/14

45 as 0/9/4/9/0/7/16

50 as 0/10/4/10/0/8/18

1 hard run or medium long run + 1 long run version:

replace tue-wed-thu x/4/x by:

35: 5/9/4 instead of 7/4/7

40: 5/10/5 instead of 8/4/8

45: 6/11/5 instead of 9/4/9

50: 6/12/6 instead of 10/4/10

or maybe a mix: 1 week of 2 hard+1LR and then 1 week of the second scheme 1 mid long + 1LR?

Anyone with good insight on increasing mileage, please reach out. I don't see myself running the same schedule as I do now (w/30mpw) amplified to 50.

Cheers

Bumping this. I'm pretty interested in potential answers to questions #2,3 and 4. Thanks in advance!

I think that with your background, you are a ways from being where you need to be to run a really strong marathon. It looks as though you are running around 30 miles per week now, and I think bumping it too much in the months ahead is going to encourage injury. I would focus on improving your 5k/10k/half times for now. I think that the 2 workout / 1 long run schedule is a good one. For me, I saw dramatic improvement by really running hard on the workout / long run days, and REALLY recovering the other days. You might be able to get by on 5 days a week, although doing an easy 4-8 on one additional day is a good way to boost your mileage.

Looking at your schedule, I think that to improve your times in the distance events (i.e. not the 800 and mile), your interval / tempo days should include more mileage. A three-mile warm-up, followed by workouts such as a 6-mile progressive run, or 8x800 with 1 minute rest, or 5xmile with 1-2 minutes rest, or tempo on hills - stuff like that - followed by a mile or two cooldown, will be really benefial for longer distance races.

If you wanted to increase your mileage, you could easily throw in doubles on workout days. That being said, if you increased your workout days to 8-9 miles, continue with your long runs, and get 3 easy days in, I think your mileage will be plenty high given where you are right now. Once you get comfortable with the already higher mileage, you can add in doubles.

(Incidentally, I went from having times very similar to yours to having much faster times - 18:00/37:50/1:23 - by more or less following the above.)

Re. the weight, I think that's a hard one to call. Everyone is built differently. I'm 5'7, late 20s, and 120, but I'm a female. If you're eating reasonably well, and putting it the miles, your weight will do what it's supposed to do.

Same? wrote:

I've run 19:22 for the 5k last yr off 25mpw, planning to run about 35mpw for train for the 10k w/ 40' goal (April), close to 40mpw for the half w/ 1:30 goal in June and then will start marathon training for a fall. Assuming that progression can be done, is 3:10 a reasonable goal for the Fall?

thx

Here's the thing:

Anyone with a 40:00 10k CAN do 1:30 for the half, and probably WILL.

Someone with a 1:30:00 half CAN do 3:10 for the marathon, and probably WON'T.

The training to do 13 miles at 6:50 pace to hit ~1:30:00 isn't a whole lot different than doing 6.2 miles at 6:25 for a ~40:00 10k. It sounds like you can probably get there on your 25 mpw, really.

But doing 26.2 at 7:15 pace (or any pace), while well within the grasp of someone with a 40:00/1:30:00, does require a significant step up in mileage (for most).

I started running late (late 20s), like you, and I remember that I broke 38:00, 1:25:00 and 3:05 in the same year. I was severely undertrained in terms of volume, though. If you're smarter than I was and do the work, I think you can shoot for 3:10.

Don't rush, though. You should be able to do that 1:30 very comfortably before taking a run at 3:10. The last thing you need is a bad experience the first time out at the distance...

To clarify, I didn't mean increase your workout days to 8-9 miles. I meant increase the length of the workout to 8-9 (including w/u and c/d).