Brooks Kicks Out Customers

LFoley wrote:

laughingostrich wrote:

Anyone know if there is a cutoff in terms of how fast people are that were able to stay in the program?

I have been in Brooks ID for the past 3 years and received a fanatics letter. I have a 2:32 PR but have only run 2:41 and 1:13 in the past year. I know of at least one guy who is a sub 2:30 marathoner who also got a fanatics letter.

I'll give it a try. If shoes are still 40% off I'll be happy.

It has been mentioned several times on this thread but it looks like things like high school coaching, blogging and other types of exposure matter more than winning local fun runs when Brooks decided who they want in the PACE group.

There is a guy in my area that made the PACE team who didn't even wear Brooks. He only ran a couple races, doesn't coach, and doesn't even care about the series. He got an email thanking him for all the support this past year. It's sad that good runners like you were screwed. But there is only going to be discounts for January and after that there will be limited promotions for first come, first served.

What an unfortunate title on a thread that is either written by someone trolling for responses or a disgruntled runner who wasn't asked to return to the ID program.

Lets look at the facts- Brooks has established, to my mind, a unique plan among any running company. Invite grass roots runners- from fast to slow- to a program where, in exchange for a verbal commitment to promote the Brooks brand, the runner receives 40% discount off all apparel and shoes. Is there any other company out there doing this? This program has created an interesting network of people, and given them a taste of what it feels like when a major running company really pays attention to you.

In the ID program that just concluded, at the introductory sponsorship level, runners received 40% off any product, and a singlet and shorts. Next year's Fanatics program will still offer the 40% discount. Maybe no new singlets and shorts will be offered, but no reasonable ID member would have shrugged if Brooks told them, that for budget reasons, the 2011 ID program wouldn't provide new uniforms- please use last year's.

So, before anyone thinks that Brooks is "kicking anyone to the curb" or ruining their dreams, keep in mind that the Fanatics program, along with the new incarnation of the ID program, is pretty groundbreaking, by offering a "sponsorship-like" experience to runners of any and all abilities. The discount is terrific, and there will continue to be a community of Fanatics, PACE members, and ID members to draw support and inspiration from.

Disclosure- I am an ID member who was promoted to the PACE group this year. I do not understand the process for how this promotion was made, but I am greatly appreciative of it.

Already said I was kicked to the curb. Of course I want a discussion on this issue because there was none before it happened. They are not going to offer 40% discount to Fanatics. Being put in Fanatics is like when a girlfriend tells you that they just want to be friends. It's a way of trying to be nice while getting rid of them. My main problem is that nobody was given the chance to prove they belonged.

You're posting under the name M Runner, so I'm guessing you are from Michigan. The state that had the winner of the ID series who cheated to win and was proven that he cheated. Yet Brooks still let him receive the overall award. That's pretty unique.

Brooks ID aka ignores dreams wrote:

You're posting under the name M Runner, so I'm guessing you are from Michigan. The state that had the winner of the ID series who cheated to win and was proven that he cheated. Yet Brooks still let him receive the overall award. That's pretty unique.

I am also a Michigan runner and while I don't know Kyle Nelson, the guy who won the series, many of my friends do and they all speak highly of him.

He raced 50+ times to win the series. That was the way the series was set up. In one email I think they said something about changing it for next year. I would have a hard time believing he cheated from an anonymous message board poster.

We'll all see what happens with this fanatics thing. If nothing else we now have extra motivation to train and beat people in Brooks ID singlets.

So many things wrong with your post Brooks ID. First, why do you assume the poster is from Michigan? How many states begin with the letter M? Maybe, his name has nothing to do with the state he is from. Hey, at least you got your pot shot at the Michigan guy, right?

Brooks ID aka ignores dreams wrote:

My main problem is that nobody was given the chance to prove they belonged.

You did have a chance to prove you belonged - Jan 1, 2010 through December 1, 2010. Brooks looked at what you contributed and decided you weren't worth the $X that they were spending to have you as an ID member. Your post on Letsrun and your bad mouthing of the program suggests that they were right to bid you farewell.

I know you're God's gift to running, but Brooks doesn't owe you a thing. Get over yourself.

laughingostrich wrote:

Are there benefits to being in Fanatics?

Ooooh. A program with benefits. Is that like friends with benefits?

I believe the "Nelson controversy" had to do with changing previous pr times and maybe " manipulating" gun/chip times.

The biggest issue for the ID crowd was the apparently randomness of the selection process and, as several have pointed out, not having the ability to present a case for the "sphere of influence" Brooks was looking for.

I'm sure Kyle is a great guy, I didn't say he wasn't. It was proven that he cheated and it is a fact he cheated. He ran races that were not correct distances and instead of putting them as correct times, he changed them to what he calculated would be 5k or whatever. He didn't use the same formula for any of the races either. He was also not supposed to change them in the first place and he was told that. He didn't win because of how many races he ran, he won because he changed the times to give himself more PR's, which count for more than number of races.Plus his lifetime PR is better than any of the races he ran this past year, so none of them should have been PR's anyway. The evidence was sent in and nothing was done about it. If he had just posted the times correctly, he wouldn't have finished in the top ten. I'm impressed with all the races he did, but a 20 minute 5k runner cheating and winning the series over those who deserved it was horrible. I wasn't close to winning so it didn't mess up my placing. But all those guys in the top 5 got shafted.

Extra motivation to train and beat people in the Brooks ID singlet? I don't have to train to beat most of them. Plus I'm sure I donate more time to the local running community than most of them. I'm not God's gift to running and never claim that I should be considered even in the realm of anything close. The whole thing that makes me mad and post these things is that nobody was given the opportunity to prove they deserve to be in the program and I've got a grudge for the next week or so, (I'll get over it when I realize I don't need Brooks)but for now I'm angry over it and a lot of runners are. Being a poor runner, the free shoes I received for doing what they asked of me is going to hurt me financially not getting them anymore. Yes, I did earn them just like a waiter earns a $5 tip.

Brooks ID aka ignores dreams wrote:

Already said I was kicked to the curb. Of course I want a discussion on this issue because there was none before it happened. They are not going to offer 40% discount to Fanatics. Being put in Fanatics is like when a girlfriend tells you that they just want to be friends. It's a way of trying to be nice while getting rid of them. My main problem is that nobody was given the chance to prove they belonged.

You're posting under the name M Runner, so I'm guessing you are from Michigan. The state that had the winner of the ID series who cheated to win and was proven that he cheated. Yet Brooks still let him receive the overall award. That's pretty unique.

You are correct on the 40%- that was my error in mis-reading a post by Doug Rosenberg, creater of the Fanatic program, on the Brooks ID message board. Monthly discounts will be available, but it is unclear what they are. 40% discounts are extended into January until the program is set up.

Unfortunately, this highlights the difficult process of company sponsorship. If you think you feel bad now that you've lost your 40% discount, think about how some of the elites fare after losing their primary source of income when their sponsors decide to go "in another direction."

A discussion on this is good- but the discussion takes an immediate negative turn when you claim that Brooks is ignoring your dreams and kicking customers to the curb. That isn't a discussion, its a rant, which is only productive to make you feel better and try and "stick it" to a company that has hurt your feelings.

A more productive discussion would be this- was the ID program for Brooks, in fact, profitable? Did it spread their message to a wider base? Could other companies follow their lead? What types of programs would benefit both the consumer and the equipment suppliers? As it is, on balance, I feel that the previous incarnation of the ID program benefited the consumer more than the company. This may be why they had to reduce their level of sponsorship for over 700 runners. (And I ask again, has any other equipment manufacturer provided such a widespread sponsorship of athletes of all abilities? Kudos to Brooks for trying to make this happen, for at least a limited time).

Will the 2011 program improve both the consumer and corporate bottom line? Guess we'll have to wait to find out.

A more productive discussion would be this- was the ID program for Brooks, in fact, profitable? Did it spread their message to a wider base? Could other companies follow their lead? What types of programs would benefit both the consumer and the equipment suppliers? As it is, on balance, I feel that the previous incarnation of the ID program benefited the consumer more than the company. This may be why they had to reduce their level of sponsorship for over 700 runners. (And I ask again, has any other equipment manufacturer provided such a widespread sponsorship of athletes of all abilities? Kudos to Brooks for trying to make this happen, for at least a limited time).Quote

The answer to was it profitable, of course it was. Another poster pointed it out that the discount stilled allowed for profit. I can also give Brooks, which I did, evidence that I got lots of runners in my area to buy Brooks when they were not. I'm sure the local running store in my town hurt because some of us were no longer buying from him, but he personally doesn't do anything for the running community in this area. It's great what Brooks did with the program, but they were unfair with how the eliminated members.

You are a turd. Seriously, you really feel the way you do about the Brooks Program. As already mentioned, you were given free perks and you aren't even a good runner most likely - like 99% of the people in the program. Consider yourself lucky.

You could have emailed Steve at Brooks, anytime in the past year, to update him on what you had been doing in the community, what you were looking forward to next year and thanking them for the support the past year. If you didn't do that before you found out you were bumped from ID, then you are a lazy, stupid, selfish punk. Steve's email address was known to everyone in the program.

This goes to anyone who feels that Brooks jaded them.

I have contacted Brooks near the end of every year I have been in the program, regardless of the fact I compete at the Olympic Trials level.

Here are the problems with Brooks:

1. They do major overhauls to their shoes too often. When I found a shoe I liked the next version of the model would be substantially different.

2. The communication sucks. It is awful. The worst. I have been a wear tester and am a former ID member (I quit last year). The communication is inconsistent and sporadic. And then the people at Brooks blame the runners for not getting stuff in on time and knowing what in the hell is going on.

3. Durability. I can get 350 to 400 miles on Nike and Asics. 250 is all I could get out of most Brooks shoes. The 40% isn't that great of a deal when the product only lasts 40% as long.

4. Colors. Brooks generally and consistently has some of the worst looking shoes on the market.

I think Brooks tries to do some cool stuff, but they fail miserably in some key areas. I wear the Cascadia as my trail shoe. Excellent shoe. If Brooks could figure out the durability issue (a major thing) and fine tune the minor things (get some people who are organized and can communicate, stop changing something that works, and choose some better colors) they would be a powerhouse in running.

You did NOT quit. You still have an opinion of Brooks which means that you are still emotionally tied.

If you truly quit, you would have no opinion.

"3. Durability. I can get 350 to 400 miles on Nike and Asics. 250 is all I could get out of most Brooks shoes. "

Interesting. I get much more than 250 out of my Brooks.

Agree with you on the Cascadias.

"You could have emailed Steve at Brooks, anytime in the past year, to update him on what you had been doing in the community, what you were looking forward to next year and thanking them for the support the past year. If you didn't do that before you found out you were bumped from ID, then you are a lazy, stupid, selfish punk. Steve's email address was known to everyone in the program." Quote

I did email him and let him know what I was doing. He was happy and impressed with it. It was a random decision on who made it in. I wasn't lucky to be in the program. What I do for the running community made me earn it. That might actually be my biggest complaint about this whole thing. Most of the people that got in didn't earn it. If you are an Olympic Trials level runner, which I highly doubt because nobody in the top 100 had times close to even consider honestly that they could make it, why are you in the series? You need to learn how to network. We have runners in this area that are close to Olympic Trials level who receive more than Brooks offers. "lazy, stupid, selfish punk"? I sacrificed my own training this year to help other runners.

Only 250 miles out of your Brooks shoes? Something must be wrong with your footstrike, because no one I know gets any less miles out of their Brooks shoes as compared to other companies. I've gotten more out of my T6s than that, and they're not finished.

really slow learner wrote:

You did NOT quit. You still have an opinion of Brooks which means that you are still emotionally tied.

If you truly quit, you would have no opinion.

I quit. Having to wear their dumb singlet and man thongs was a bit much for the 40% discount when a good Internet shopper can get many of their shoes at 40% off or more.

What little logic you have is bad, at best, about the quitting and opinion thing.

Former Brooks Runner wrote:

1. They do major overhauls to their shoes too often. When I found a shoe I liked the next version of the model would be substantially different.

This. I started out as a huge fan of the original Ghost. The Ghost 2 was okay but a step down. The Ghost 3 doesn't even resemble the shoes in its lineage. While the first shoe was responsive, the third is super cushioned.

Also I think the toe boxes are too low on nearly all models. I have counseled several friends who have developed blisters under their toe nails in addition to my personal experience with that malady, and in every one, it has been in a Brooks shoe. I don't get those blisters in shoes with a more generous toe box.

But I do get better durability in Brooks, so my trade off is pain and disfigurement... lol.

Bingo. This information was communicated by Brooks time and again since the ID Program inception. There is far more to this program than "running fast", which is relative to begin with. Consistent updates regarding ones contribution to their communities, school teams etc. promoting Brooks and Inspiring people to get out and get active via walking / running etc. Your childish rant and bad mouthing of the program demonstrates how much you actually contributed and were involved with the program.