the reason that your kids ran faster than Dathan is because there is a difference between a 3 kilometer race and a 3 mile race...the 3 mile race is longer. are you sure that you're a coach?
the reason that your kids ran faster than Dathan is because there is a difference between a 3 kilometer race and a 3 mile race...the 3 mile race is longer. are you sure that you're a coach?
In high school it's 5k not a 3k for the time. So 14:10 is really fast.
way back when wrote:
I saw Webb run 13:57 at Burke Lake in Virginia. It is short of 3 miles, but his time is so much faster than other great high school runners, including Sharif Karie and Jim Hill, that it merits mention. The fact that Ritz beat Webb soundly that year at the FL championships underscores just how good of a high school XC runner Ritz was.
Ritz really was the f-ing best, and by the way, I hate LR for not letting me spell that out, because Ritz in HS deserved the full word. 14:10 solo is staggering. I think Ritz could've beaten the Soviets in the Lindgren 10,000M race mentioned earlier, but that's not putting Lindgren down, as he is probably the greater all-time HS runner overall than Ritz, but no one ran XC like Ritz. Kid killed himself in HS to be the best, much like Lindgren did. The parallels between Ryun/Lindgren and Webb/Ritz were what made the high school class of 2001 so exciting.
way back when wrote:
Lindgren is indeed the best high school cross country runner ever. I am not sure how to describe him. Clearly uniquely talented, but also with an incredible capacity to train maniacally.
After him, it is Ritzenhein and Virgin (not sure which order).
Agreed. Those are the top 3. I'd put Ritz above Lindgren for XC, but Lindgren higher overall. Virgin is for sure #3, and occasionally posts on here (or used to).
ifififi wrote:
well, you could start by making a list of some of the all-time fast runs by good kids on "known" courses. Maybe change this thread to all-time great performances instead of just fastest times.
You could start with ...
Virgin 13:50.6 3M Detweiler Pk State Meet 1973
Ritz 14:10 5k MI State Meet MIS course 2000
Rosa 14:56 5k NJ Holmdel MOC 2009
To be honest, i ran at holmdel once, and it was easy, very overrated. Yeah, there was one steep hill, but that was it. The hardest course in my mind was Sunken meadow park, where they used to hold the footlocker northeast regionals, no man has ever broken 15 on that, and if some high school kid were to, they would probably be the best runner to ever live. SUNKEN MEADOWS IS THAT HARD.
way back when wrote:
Lindgren is indeed the best high school cross country runner ever. I am not sure how to describe him. Clearly uniquely talented, but also with an incredible capacity to train maniacally.
After him, it is Ritzenhein and Virgin (not sure which order).
Jim running 3:55 may have something to say about Gerry!
billy7777771 wrote:
ifififi wrote:well, you could start by making a list of some of the all-time fast runs by good kids on "known" courses. Maybe change this thread to all-time great performances instead of just fastest times.
You could start with ...
Virgin 13:50.6 3M Detweiler Pk State Meet 1973
Ritz 14:10 5k MI State Meet MIS course 2000
Rosa 14:56 5k NJ Holmdel MOC 2009
SUNKEN MEADOWS IS THAT HARD.
Agreed
billy7777771 wrote:
ifififi wrote:well, you could start by making a list of some of the all-time fast runs by good kids on "known" courses. Maybe change this thread to all-time great performances instead of just fastest times.
You could start with ...
Virgin 13:50.6 3M Detweiler Pk State Meet 1973
Ritz 14:10 5k MI State Meet MIS course 2000
Rosa 14:56 5k NJ Holmdel MOC 2009
To be honest, i ran at holmdel once, and it was easy, very overrated. Yeah, there was one steep hill, but that was it. The hardest course in my mind was Sunken meadow park, where they used to hold the footlocker northeast regionals, no man has ever broken 15 on that, and if some high school kid were to, they would probably be the best runner to ever live. SUNKEN MEADOWS IS THAT HARD.
I don't think you know what you're talking about....
Also, Rosa's time was considerably slower than Ches at 14:53.... Yes I know Rosa did it as a Junior, but he had help the whole way, Ches did his winning by a minute...
Fernandez's 14:24 for a true 5k at the 2007 CIF state meet is up there. Fastest time of that day by 50 seconds, won his race by over a minute, and set a record that nobody's going to be touching in a very long time. The course isn't fast either.
Solinsky's 14:41 on the San Diego FL course should also be in consideration. It's probably comparable to Ritz's 14:29 on the Orlando course--maybe even slightly better. Absolutely astounding run.
cali boy wrote:
Solinsky's 14:41 on the San Diego FL course should also be in consideration. It's probably comparable to Ritz's 14:29 on the Orlando course--maybe even slightly better. Absolutely astounding run.
Ruben Reina ran 14:36 there.
For women, Amber Trotter's 16:24 in Orlando has to be up there.
While not the fastest, this is the best cross country race I have ever heard of a high schooler running. If Fernandez hadn't gotten injured (I understand that he did) he wins FL Nationals in under 14:40 that year on a muddy course.
cali boy wrote:
Fernandez's 14:24 for a true 5k at the 2007 CIF state meet is up there. Fastest time of that day by 50 seconds, won his race by over a minute, and set a record that nobody's going to be touching in a very long time. The course isn't fast either.
Solinsky's 14:41 on the San Diego FL course should also be in consideration. It's probably comparable to Ritz's 14:29 on the Orlando course--maybe even slightly better. Absolutely astounding run.
areusure? wrote:
way back when wrote:Lindgren is indeed the best high school cross country runner ever. I am not sure how to describe him. Clearly uniquely talented, but also with an incredible capacity to train maniacally.
After him, it is Ritzenhein and Virgin (not sure which order).
Jim running 3:55 may have something to say about Gerry!
Note he said HS CROSS COUNTRY runner. To be honest, I'm not really sure about what Jim Ryun did in XC, but Gerry was obviously a beast at it.
I think it's pretty obvious that Jim Ryun and Gerry Lindgren are the two best HS distance runners ever, but in terms of XC, I don't think we know much about Ryun.
Consider This wrote:
cali boy wrote:Solinsky's 14:41 on the San Diego FL course should also be in consideration. It's probably comparable to Ritz's 14:29 on the Orlando course--maybe even slightly better. Absolutely astounding run.
Ruben Reina ran 14:36 there.
For women, Amber Trotter's 16:24 in Orlando has to be up there.
Yeah, I've never heard of a faster HS girl's XC time than Trotter's staggering win. That blew me away at the time. It was sad she rarely ran much afterwards, and I know suffered from an eating disorder. I hope she's doing well. Her story always made me fast. She was INSANELY fast. Didn't she win by over a minute? That's STAGGERING at FL Nationals, and more impressive than any win by a guy in the history of FL.
Are we just considering American high schoolers? I feel certain we could dig up a kenyan who ran in the 13s for a 5k xc.
Sunken Meadow is hands down the hardest xc course I've ever run on. Holmdel was nothing compared to it. Cheserek set the record at 15:20 for reference Brannigan ran a 15:45 going all out. I believe no one has broken 15:30 and possibly 15:40 besides Cheserek. That performance might be top 10 all time hs xc performances.
Comparing all female HS XC runners from all time, does anyone think that anyone could beat Amber Trotter in her FL shape? Just curious.
Also, I'd love to read about more foreign HS XC runners, but do they run 5Ks often? Yes, I'm sure some Kenyan kids could run 13:45 on a 5K course if Dathan ran 14:10. Still, he beat some great foreigners in his Worlds bronze performance. Winner was Kenenisa, wasn't it?
GoldenMiles wrote:
Comparing all female HS XC runners from all time, does anyone think that anyone could beat Amber Trotter in her FL shape? Just curious.
I think Melody Fairchild might have been close. I can't find many XC performances for her, but I think Mary Shea likely would have been close as well, since she ran 32:52 for 10000.
Consider This wrote:
GoldenMiles wrote:Comparing all female HS XC runners from all time, does anyone think that anyone could beat Amber Trotter in her FL shape? Just curious.
I think Melody Fairchild might have been close. I can't find many XC performances for her, but I think Mary Shea likely would have been close as well, since she ran 32:52 for 10000.
Maybe Sarah Baxter, Alexa Efraimson, Mary Cain
An Historian wrote:
One of the most impressive performances that I remember was Alan Webb running 14:36 at Hagan Stone Park, in NC. It's a fast time period, but that is probably worth 14:05-14:15 at McAlpine, maybe better. He won by like a minute and a half too.
+1
I've run Hagan Stone and McAlpine several times. This is legit. Webb was jogging too.
troll much? wrote:
billy7777771 wrote:To be honest, i ran at holmdel once, and it was easy, very overrated. Yeah, there was one steep hill, but that was it. The hardest course in my mind was Sunken meadow park, where they used to hold the footlocker northeast regionals, no man has ever broken 15 on that, and if some high school kid were to, they would probably be the best runner to ever live. SUNKEN MEADOWS IS THAT HARD.
I don't think you know what you're talking about....
Also, Rosa's time was considerably slower than Ches at 14:53.... Yes I know Rosa did it as a Junior, but he had help the whole way, Ches did his winning by a minute...
To what part are you referring? His opinion on Holmdel? Plenty of people have that opinion, and it is one that is backed up by comparisons of how times at Holmdel compare to those at common regional courses such as Bowdoin (NY Feds) and VCP (FLNE). It was also backed up the few years FLNE was held at Sunken Meadows.
That's not to say that Rosa/Cheserek/NJ runners weren't or aren't good. Just that the state meet course isn't nearly as brutal as some on here would lead others to believe.