If Ritz doesn't run sub 2:07, is it bad coaching?

The one on the front page a couple of days ago. It is a quote from AlSal and since they give the pace to the nearest sec (4:51 not 4:50) I have to believe that it is some what accurate.

pain relief wrote:

So where did this "fact" come from; what interview or article?

tough to get on the bandwagon of the recent era runners.

william henry rodgers ran 2:10 in the late 70's on this course, including having to climb 2 different sets of stairs en route to get onto the bridges because nyc police wouldn't open the bridges fully. . .

don't think he had altitude tent or support team monitoring his bodily intake or output.

have we come far?

no.

ritz doesn't race enough to run under 210

FogRunner wrote: If top speed + fat:carbohydrate ratio + conservative first 5Km all come together, I would bet Ritz can run in the 2:08's at NY (the same for Meb). A slightly more efficient form gives me even more confidence in his freshness over the last 10Km.

FogRunner

I hope you didn't put any money on that. They hit 5k a few ticks under 16:30, hit that half at 65+ and he still faded to 2:12.

I'm beginning to wonder if Dathan just doesn't have a stellar marathon in him.

Ritz looks like a half marathoner to me. For whatever reason he can't run those last 6 miles. Sucks for him since that isn't an championship event. Now I wouldn't be shocked to see Ritz run a 2:08 someday but 2:06 (pretty reasonable for a 60 min hm guy) seems very far away.I would be really interested to see the lab results that show that he is more efficient.

nerp wrote:

FogRunner wrote: If top speed + fat:carbohydrate ratio + conservative first 5Km all come together, I would bet Ritz can run in the 2:08's at NY (the same for Meb). A slightly more efficient form gives me even more confidence in his freshness over the last 10Km.

FogRunner

I hope you didn't put any money on that. They hit 5k a few ticks under 16:30, hit that half at 65+ and he still faded to 2:12.

I'm beginning to wonder if Dathan just doesn't have a stellar marathon in him.

bad bad science.

Maybe he is not capable of running 2:07. His talents are better utilized on the track.

Well that is the question. It looks like he is a 12:56/27:00 type guy who can run a 2:10 marathon. My thoughts are with those times he has zero chance of winning a 5k/10k on the track but has a somewhat legitimate (not probably but something like a 5-10%) chance of getting a bronze if things go his way. As a 2:08 marathoner, you are pretty much in the same boat hoping some of the the 6-8 2:05-2:06 guys in the race crash and burn.

joe9090 wrote:

Maybe he is not capable of running 2:07. His talents are better utilized on the track.

That's not true... Dan Browne was with the NOP for at least six months before he ran 2:11 at Twin Cities.

I think the fact that a writer recently compared his legs to a 12 year old girl may have sonmething to do with it. This despte his torso appearing to be made of "hammered white leather"

I really want to see him on the track instead of being alright at the marathon.

Think he'll switch coaches again?

Ritz and Hall are up against talent Rogers and Shorter could never have imagined. Hall and Ritz are plainly better, but unlike Rogers and Shorter they are not household names. Imagine what Hall and Ritz could have done 35 years ago.

In terms of talent US distance running has never been better, it is just being overshadowed by the incredible Africans.

Outside the Africans, Americans, and Japanese, there is really not much going on in the marathon.

coachkritter wrote:

Think he'll switch coaches again?

He shouldn't switch if he plans to stay on the track as Alberto is doing an excellent job there. He should switch to Hansons if he plans to pursue the marathon.

However, I have a strong feeling that his coach is a Nike decision and Not a Dathan decision.

Irving Babbit wrote:

If we were to go back a bit more than a year, after Ritz ran 45 for 10 in a workout in preparation for the World Half Championship, we would find threads in which several people said that Ritz was leaving it on the training ground--but 60 (actually, 59:59.10 rounded up) seemed to prove otherwise. Of course, as everyone knows, countless things can go wrong in a marathon.

If he ran 45:03 in a "workout" and only ran 60:00 in the HM, he DID leave his best on the training track.

Ritz is not a marathoner. When he trains for 5k-HM events he is less prone to injury than when training for the Marathon. He has way too much speed and to prone to injuries to be able to run his expected times for the marathon. he needs to stick to the track and get some AR's and leave the marathon alone.

AlSal has not had any runners that are considered marathoners. Maybe Kara might be one, if she can comeback, but no one else. They are all track athletes.

I think you are on to something...these guys don't run many real races but they are running long tempos all the time which are basically time trials. One of the Brits from the 80's (maybe Tim Hutchings) said ,referring to training, that "you can't always be digging up the potatoes to make sure they're growing". I think Al and Ritz are digging up the potatoes too often.

This is an interesting observation from the top thread: "In general why does it seem that Americans tend to brag more about workouts than races?"

Very true!

Have you heard African runners' coaches bragging about what training their athletes did or can do?

I only hear this mostly from American coaches!

Dathan should forget about the comfy Saunas and all the comfy culture and go train in Iten! Can't his sponsors afford that?

Shouldn't we just be proud right now on how much US marathon running has improved? A decade ago the best American finish would probably been 15th place. Remember, when Steve Spence was the only WC qualifier marathon in 2000.

I think we can safely say outside the African continent the US and Japan are the only real competitive marathon running nations.

Hopefully, this marathon training base will give Ritz the added stamina to run a sub 12:50 5k.