SilkySlim wrote:
Great article. I would take Alberto as a coach any day.
I don't agree. The article is a litany of obsessive experimentation that can only confuse runners, and make them lose confidence. Trying to get Ritz to run like Bekele is just nuts. Every runner is unique. Overanalyzing biomechanics is a recipe for failure.
[quote]Montesquieu wrote:
Don't you think the researcher (Walker) probably knows how to compare apples to apples?[quote]
of course he does, for my knowledge I would like to clarify what the toe-off position is (toe on the ground or off)
From the article, note these sentences:
Salazar believes that a runner striking even slightly in front of his body will experience a momentary hesitation while the hamstring labors to pull his torso forward over the grounded foot. “It’s like having a square wheel on your car,” Salazar said. “Each time it comes around, there’s a moment where the car will lurch.”
This is great information for all those runners out there who struggle with upper hamstring issues.
This is the root-cause of it. The picture of the running gait being more circular makes perfect sense.
The closer the foot is to the butt when you swing your leg thru allows your leg to pull through faster. Faster pull means higher turnover.
I teach my runners a hand postition I learned in speed skating which is exactly what Salazar uses. It is proven to be the best hand position.
I also instruct the runners to use a hand height that mimics them adjusting the waistband of their running shorts. Higher than that and you are wasting energy. Think back to basic aerobics classes, the higher the arms the harder the heart has to pump.
Good stuff!!!
This article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/23/sports/olympics/23strides.html?_r=2) had to be corrected for misstating Radcliffe's WR. Looks like they need to correct the following too:
"Haile Gebrselassie of Ethiopia, who holds the world record for the marathon in 2:04.26."
insightful comment wrote:
Are you teaching 101? Because I'm hoping to become a professional coach, and though I already have an appointment set up to speak with Salazar, it seems you might know better than him. Perhaps we can schedule a time to talk about what it takes to coach world class athletes...
Basic engineering. If something is working well (and it is with Ritz - just maybe not as well as #1 in the world) you change one thing at a time. Duh. If you change multiple things at once, how do you know which cause the problems? Which make things better? You don't. Here endeth the lesson.
Noz4Nuz wrote:
This article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/23/sports/olympics/23strides.html?_r=2) had to be corrected for misstating Radcliffe's WR. Looks like they need to correct the following too:
"Haile Gebrselassie of Ethiopia, who holds the world record for the marathon in 2:04.26."
The article was written a month before Geb broke 2:04.
No, she quoted him as saying "nipple to nipple," by which he meant that each hand should come up to the nipple on that side.
i actually disagree that body doesn't work well with isolated changes like this. Running is a full body motion from head to toe and if you change one thing it affects other parts of the body. like others have stated there is probably a reason ritz carries his arms the way he does and strikes hit foot the way he does they are all connected. if you change one thing you have to change everything else.
vdawg wrote:
yep....http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2010/11/video-alberto-salazar-dathan-ritzenhein.html
Every time I see a video where they've freeze-framed someone and measured a bunch of angles I think - pure garbage. Anyone else?
How do you know you're freezing it at just the right moment? If you watch the sprint at the very end of the video it sure looks like Dathan's leg is hitting the ground below him (or at least at a less than 90 degree angle).
Teach yourself. Using a treadmill makes it easy to gauge relative speed. Wear flat shoes. Walk at 3% elevation, 2.7mph. Back away towards the back of the belt. Swing arms directly straight up and back; the shoulders are isolated from the hips. Now swing arms across the body; the shoulders are engaged to the hips through the spinal engine. Let the shoulders and hips rotate slightly counter to each other. Too much detail to explain here. If you want to hear more, just respond back. Better to master it walking first and be guided.
FogRunner
Not a "great" article, but certainly an interesting one. Complete overhaul of Ritz's form is a recipe for frustration and possible long-term injuries, which will likely result in Ritz flipping AlSal the bird. The problem with this approach is it risks injury at a time when Ritz is in the prime years of his career and an approach where AlSal is putting all apples in one basket - if this does not payoff Ritz could end up resenting AlSal for a long time! Perhaps not well though through?
Getting his training down with the right mix of endurance, speed and recovery to maximize Ritz's talent and potential during his prime years, with some minor tweaking of his running form might make more sense and would certainly help to minimize risk of long-term injury.
Will be interesting to assess the results after Sunday...
The one thing that is made clear in the article is that AlSal stated the risk and Ritz accepted it. Ritz may well end up with some hindsight on this, but "resentful" won't be part of it. They both went into it with eyes wide open.
Busted wrote:
Not a "great" article, but certainly an interesting one. Complete overhaul of Ritz's form is a recipe for frustration and possible long-term injuries, which will likely result in Ritz flipping AlSal the bird. The problem with this approach is it risks injury at a time when Ritz is in the prime years of his career and an approach where AlSal is putting all apples in one basket - if this does not payoff Ritz could end up resenting AlSal for a long time! Perhaps not well though through?
...
they do not have the same body type. How in hell is Ritz supposed to mimic Bekele's body mechanics. I will guarantee you that Bekele's coach is not obsessing over his form like Salazar is.
It doesn't appear as though Bekele mimicked Geb's form when he was up and coming. People run differently.
Ritz has one of the prettiest strides of all the Americans and it's about to be ruined.
DublAK2 wrote:
they do not have the same body type. How in hell is Ritz supposed to mimic Bekele's body mechanics. I will guarantee you that Bekele's coach is not obsessing over his form like Salazar is.
It doesn't appear as though Bekele mimicked Geb's form when he was up and coming. People run differently.
Ritz has one of the prettiest strides of all the Americans and it's about to be ruined.
You dont need to have the same body type. There are principles of good form that apply to everyone. The laws of biomechanics dont change for every person. Obviously Bekele's coach isn't obsessing over his form... the guy has perfect mechanics. Duh!
Define a "pretty stride". Everyone who puts in the miles develops s smooth stride (which is what I assume you mean by a "pretty stride" but if you're heel striking and overstriding it's still wrong.
I don't agree about "if you put in the miles, you will run efficiently" (i.e. Salazar).
But I do agree that "you don't need the same body type to have good form."
Case and point for distance runners is the current darling of LRC: Solinsky
DublAK2 wrote:
they do not have the same body type. How in hell is Ritz supposed to mimic Bekele's body mechanics?
I agree. Shorter runners tend to spend more time in the air and have larger hip separation angles. Also, africans have smaller and more dense bones, better suited to a higher impact, more bounding stride. This produces the higher lower leg angle at footstrike (foot more under the hips).
AlSal might want to analyze Lasse Viren or Wilson Kiprop to get their ideal targets.
vano wrote:
DublAK2 wrote:they do not have the same body type. How in hell is Ritz supposed to mimic Bekele's body mechanics. I will guarantee you that Bekele's coach is not obsessing over his form like Salazar is.
It doesn't appear as though Bekele mimicked Geb's form when he was up and coming. People run differently.
Ritz has one of the prettiest strides of all the Americans and it's about to be ruined.
You dont need to have the same body type. There are principles of good form that apply to everyone. The laws of biomechanics dont change for every person. Obviously Bekele's coach isn't obsessing over his form... the guy has perfect mechanics. Duh!
Define a "pretty stride". Everyone who puts in the miles develops s smooth stride (which is what I assume you mean by a "pretty stride" but if you're heel striking and overstriding it's still wrong.
It may be that there is a single most efficient stride in theory and that in practice Bekele's natural biomechanics allow him to damn near achieve it, but that doesn't change the fact that Ritz's biomechanics do not. He can go ahead, change his stride and match it to Bekele's, but at the end of the day he's not going to get much out of it as he sits off on the sidelines, injured.
pwnt!
Bekele ran barefoot as a child; Ritz ran in clunky Nikes...that is all you need to know.
I think Bekele actually raced x-c barefoot well into his young career.