Canova Link to Current Italian Runners?

no we don't

Kip Keino had a good natural running base followed up with shitty training later on.Current Kenyans have a good base and much more modern training. Simple as that.

So if Canova has all this success with Kenyans, why can't he even get a single one of the the 50 million of his own countrymen to be able to run a 10K without getting lapped twice by a teen Kenyan?

Also, how did the Kenyans do in the most coveted prize in the World of distance running, the ultimate pinnacle of distance running, the track 10,000 meter title? It seemed to me that they were left in the dust by the Ethiopians who like everyone else were only allowed 3 in the race.

Maybe the secret is genetics? That might be it. Maybe certain tribes whose ancestors have lived at altitude for many generations have a genetic edge? But wait, Paula Radcliffe is from the UK. Wang was from China. And now Benita Johnson from Australia. All have soundly beaten the Kenyans and Ethiopians. And Canova told us how many thousands of miles the Africans had run as children. Well, Radcliffe and Johnson were riding on the school bus all the time those foolish Africans were doing all that stupid running.

None of this is adding up.

It can't be Canova's secret revolutionary training, it can't be tribal genetics, it can't be running to school, it can't just be simply hard work.

I think the "it" is something else. We just need to put our heads together and figure out just what this "it" is.

My head is spinning from trying to follow the explanations so I am going to quit now and sleep on it. You guys please keep trying to figure out what "it" is?

And why do the talented Italians refuse to do the "it" that Canova advocates?

Why do the Ethiopians now have a better "it" than the Kenyans?

We got to get to the bottom of "it".

is this another one of malmo's jokes?

I didn't mean taking it that easy. I meant smart hard work, not absolutely trashing yourself. Coe did smart hard work. The guys now are adding a bit to all aspects of the training he did. It is truly a blending of Lydiard and Coe.

When I said they don't want "it" anymore. I meant most of them don't seem to want the end rewards of whatever successful running brings you. Whether that is fame and adulation, self gratification or just money. Or all of those.

Why did Malmo retire at the "top of his game?" Possibly because he didn't want "it" anymore.

I know he doesn't coach them -- I was just pointing to Italian runners that are leagues ahead of Americans.

Can't Find Any? wrote:

So if Canova has all this success with Kenyans, why can't he even get a single one of the the 50 million of his own countrymen to be able to run a 10K without getting lapped twice by a teen Kenyan?

Also, how did the Kenyans do in the most coveted prize in the World of distance running, the ultimate pinnacle of distance running, the track 10,000 meter title? It seemed to me that they were left in the dust by the Ethiopians who like everyone else were only allowed 3 in the race.

Dude, everyone has answered your questions, and now you are simply asking the same questions again.

A) Why would he want to coach less talented athletes just because they share his nationality? So they will only get lapped once by teen Kenyans? To put it in March Madness terms- what kind of coach would you aspire to be: Coach K who wins with superior talent or Phil Martelli who will have a nice run this year and then fade into anonymity?

It's like asking Andy Gerrard why he took the Stanford job over staying at W&M. He could have made W&M reach their potential, but they're never going to be Stanford b/c they don't have the talent.

B) The Americans lost the last WC 4x400 indoors and didn't get a medal in the 100m at the last outdoor WC. Does that mean the US isn't the dominant sprint nation? No, b/c we have depth here.

By pointing out that each nation only had 3 athletes in the 10,000m field, you are undermining your own argument. Obviously the Ethiopians are as strong at the top, but the Kenyans are deeper. Look at last years top times.

Also, while Ethiopia went 1-2-3 in the 10k, Kenyans went 1-2-5 in the steeple and 1-4-5-7 in the 2001 WC 5000m. Ethiopia went 3-6-11 in the 5000. Aside from last years 10,000 and this past World XC Champs Kenya has not been "dominated" by Ethiopia.

The guy is trolling, he's implying drugs are "it" he's making a fool out of you all. Trouble is, you all thought he was serious.

The more you guys explain the more I get confused.

Johnny O says Canova's secret is hard work.

But I supplant hard work, do the least I need to do, and never get anywhere.

So what's the answer then?

You two must be reading different Canovas?

I think you guys are on the wrong track. "It" has to be something else. Maybe it is the Kenyans and Ethiopeans run to school so that is why the teen Kenyans can run 26 minutes for 10K. Bingo, we found the answer! But why doesn't my supplanting get the same results for me?

Ah just don't get it.

These Kenyans run 1000s of miles by age 16. But wait, didn't Kip Keino and Neftali Temu run to school also? Then why did Kenyans used to be so slow prior to 1990? I mean just cause they're running more now, that just can't be the answer. Hell I'm a lazy ass and never got anywhere. Or back then, did the Kenyans build schools where people actually lived? Or did they live somewhere else? Where was I at that time? Where am I now? Why is water wet and why can't I control my bladder tonight.

Maybe the the Kenyans only started running to school recently. Damn, that must be it. They can't be as lazy as I am. But heck that can't be it either. I keep thinking more and more but keep getting more confused by all this.

Logic seems to be failing us. We need more help on this mystery.

Firstly, let me say that you're an idiot, Secondly, I BELIEVE the following Italian athletes are being coached by Canova...

Bernardini 2.10

Barzaghi 2.10

Durbano 2.11

Fogli

Ferrara

Modica

Caimmi

Goffi

Leone

Guida

Ferrari

I could be wrong on one or two names. In any case Canova is part of avery successful marathon training school of thought. Many of the other coaches base their methods around similar principals. So, to say that Baldinin & Bordin do not have a Canova approach is wrong. In addition, the Spanish marathon training group base tehir national training around the same principals. Canova alluded to the fact tha the Spanish 'borrowed' their training in teh late 90s.

So if Canova has all this success with Kenyans, why can't he even get a single one of the the 50 million of his own countrymen to be able to run a 10K without getting lapped twice by a teen Kenyan?

Also, how did the Kenyans do in the most coveted prize in the World of distance running, the ultimate pinnacle of distance running, the track 10,000 meter title? It seemed to me that they were left in the dust by the Ethiopians who like everyone else were only allowed 3 in the race.

Maybe the secret is genetics? That might be it. Maybe certain tribes whose ancestors have lived at altitude for many generations have a genetic edge? But wait, Paula Radcliffe is from the UK. Wang was from China. And now Benita Johnson from Australia. All have soundly beaten the Kenyans and Ethiopians. And Canova told us how many thousands of miles the Africans had run as children. Well, Radcliffe and Johnson were riding on the school bus all the time those foolish Africans were doing all that stupid running.

None of this is adding up.

It can't be Canova's secret revolutionary training, it can't be tribal genetics, it can't be running to school, it can't just be simply hard work.

I think the "it" is something else. We just need to put our heads together and figure out just what this "it" is.

My head is spinning from trying to follow the explanations so I am going to quit now and sleep on it. You guys please keep trying to figure out what "it" is?

And why do the talented Italians refuse to do the "it" that Canova advocates?

Why do the Ethiopians now have a better "it" than the Kenyans?

We got to get to the bottom of "it".

There is no "IT".

The more you guys explain the more I get confused.

Johnny O says Canova's secret is hard work.

But I supplant hard work, do the least I need to do, and never get anywhere.

So what's the answer then?

You two must be reading different Canovas?

I think you guys are on the wrong track. "It" has to be something else. Maybe it is the Kenyans and Ethiopeans run to school so that is why the teen Kenyans can run 26 minutes for 10K. Bingo, we found the answer! But why doesn't my supplanting get the same results for me?

Ah just don't get it.

These Kenyans run 1000s of miles by age 16. But wait, didn't Kip Keino and Neftali Temu run to school also? Then why did Kenyans used to be so slow prior to 1990? I mean just cause they're running more now, that just can't be the answer. Hell I'm a lazy ass and never got anywhere. Or back then, did the Kenyans build schools where people actually lived? Or did they live somewhere else? Where was I at that time? Where am I now? Why is water wet and why can't I control my bladder tonight.

Maybe the the Kenyans only started running to school recently. Damn, that must be it. They can't be as lazy as I am. But heck that can't be it either. I keep thinking more and more but keep getting more confused by all this.

Logic seems to be failing us. We need more help on this mystery.

Stop asking dumb questions and get out and run - that's the answer.

They've got proper coaching now to maximize their talent.

I always thought "IT" was a movie?

Ethiopia does not allow coaches and managers to deal with their athletes, they have a lot more planning and control.

Kenya is a free for all. Managers, coaches all over the place and that has caused problems in the past setting up for major training camps with everyone on different training schedules.

There is talent in East Africa, lots of it. Forget Renato, look at all the major European coaches training Kenyans. Uta's old coach is doing good in the US with African talent these days.

Renato is providing us with a great service by posting on this board and I would love that to continue in the future.

The current "IT" shift from Kenya to Ethiopia at x-c WC's is talent, IMHO. Kenya is underperforming with neither a Tergat nor Komen. They currently have talent on the track that can match Ethiopia that were not at x-c WC's, the men.

It would make sense for coaches to want to coach talent, hard trainers, in a country that needs organization of their training top down.

In my opinion, and this is a compliment to Renato, he is made for high performance coaching. His thinking/ passion is geared in that fashion. He would not be a good coach for a small junior high school with 3-5 runners and no talent, but that current coach would not be good at the high performance level. He does a great job at what he's good at.

I agree with most of your points, however:

1.) I think Renato would be a superior coach on any level; he learns about his athletes and learns what they can/cannot handle.

2.) I don't think talent is the problem -- everyone in Kenya is coached by whoever; then they all get to gether five weeks before Brussels where the Kenyan coaches beat the shit out of them and think that running all these insanely hard workouts is going to make them ready to roll at world cross. It doesn't work like that -- the fitness those Kenyans had under their Western coaches is destroyed by all that intense work and the Kenyan coaches don't take into a account what kind of training the athletes have been doing before they got to the camp. In Ethiopia, everyone's coached by the same coach, or coaches that studies uner THE coach. And they're not killing eachother trying to make the team.

Current Italians that currently use marathon training methods by Renato Canova. All times were run in 2003.

2:07:56 Stefano Baldini (coached by both, RC & LG)

2:08:53 Alberico Di Cecco

2:09:29 Daniele Caimmi

2:10:48 Migidio Bourifa

2:10:50 Francesco Ingargiola

2:10:53 Ruggero Pertile

2:11:23 Danilo Goffi

2:11:30 Sergio Chiesa

2:11:54 Ottaviano Andriani

2:12:54 Angelo Carosi

2:13:49 Mostafa Errebbah

2:14:21 Fabio Rinaldi

2:14:40 Emanuele Zenucchi

2:15:56 Denis Curzi

Renato Canova has constantly been outspoken by the lack of talent now in Italy at 3-5000 km. He is now head coach of Qatar, but his methods are still employed by the Italian Marathon federation. The above is more depth than the United States and England, combined.