Can someone address the women's 1500 now?

Rowbury's strength should transfer well to situations with rounds (World/Olympics), but not being able to break 2 minutes for 800m says that perhaps her speed isn't there to run fast (3.58 or better). Kicking (which she is normally good at, as is Dobriskey)isn't necessarily about speed, since tactics (postioning) have also have a significant impact.

BUT if she is training through this year, and getting some strength (3000/5000), perhaps next year she might be able to break through speed-wise to faster 800's. We have seen Pierce and Uceny doing speed (Flotrack), running 54-55sec 400m reps in a workout - possibly indicating that they could run 52sec for an open 400m. Surprisingly that doesn't say much for their strength if they slow so much for 800m/1500m (52+6=58 x 2 +1.56)/(58+6=64 x 3.75=4.00).

canadeh wrote:

Rowbury's strength should transfer well to situations with rounds (World/Olympics), but not being able to break 2 minutes for 800m says that perhaps her speed isn't there to run fast (3.58 or better). Kicking (which she is normally good at, as is Dobriskey)isn't necessarily about speed, since tactics (postioning) have also have a significant impact.

BUT if she is training through this year, and getting some strength (3000/5000), perhaps next year she might be able to break through speed-wise to faster 800's. We have seen Pierce and Uceny doing speed (Flotrack), running 54-55sec 400m reps in a workout - possibly indicating that they could run 52sec for an open 400m. Surprisingly that doesn't say much for their strength if they slow so much for 800m/1500m (52+6=58 x 2 +1.56)/(58+6=64 x 3.75=4.00).

Interesting that you bring up the Flotrack WOW. Cook's group was also featured on WOW this year and they did long intervals at a much slower pace. Mammoth group did very few, short intervals at much faster pace.

Would certainly explain the kick at the end of a slow, tactical race for the Mammoth girls, but in a faster paced race, Rowbury seems to come out on top.

Seems to be a much different training philosophy. Which is better or worse for 1500m is hard for me to tell.

Knowing a little about each group's philosophy, I think you're reading way too much into a single workout for each...

It seems the 1500 has the weakest field compared to the 800 (Caster) and the 5000 (Dibaba and Defar, amongst others). Shannon has broken 4 and has a good kick. I would think that the 1500 would be her best chance at a medal at worlds.

I will be very interested to see what Rowbury does next year. It does seem like he 15 might be more open than the 5k right now. But with Shannon's speed I would love to see her take the 5 k seriously and see what she could do to the AR which is a little soft compared to what the Africans and Europeans have done in the event. Her one 5k his year looked fairly easy for her and she went 15:00. And then the fast 3k, maybe her true niche is at the longer distance.

If Shannon has broken 4:00 she has done it in secret and told nobody.

bladerunner wrote:

It seems the 1500 has the weakest field compared to the 800 (Caster) and the 5000 (Dibaba and Defar, amongst others). Shannon has broken 4 and has a good kick. I would think that the 1500 would be her best chance at a medal at worlds.

The 1500 is undoubtedly in a bit of a rut right now. With the Africans atarting to get close to the 14 minute barrier in the 5k and Tirunesh talking aboout a 10k record attempt next year - which she's definitely capable of - the 1500 seems to be struggling by comparison. Many agree Defar and Dibaba could probably go 3:55 with a season's worth of training - but what's the point?

I still think the 1500 is waiting for the African revolution that the 5 and 10k has already experienced. Once that happens then we'll start seeing <3:55 clockings again.

Well that's a view of just one workout and not the whole year of training. So it's interesting but not definitive.Shannon probably will be a stronger 5K runner, but still has more to do at 1500. It was kind of a flat year for her, but let's see what happens in 2011!

wowjustwow wrote:

Fast races were few this year wrote:

Interesting that you bring up the Flotrack WOW. Cook's group was also featured on WOW this year and they did long intervals at a much slower pace. Mammoth group did very few, short intervals at much faster pace.

Would certainly explain the kick at the end of a slow, tactical race for the Mammoth girls, but in a faster paced race, Rowbury seems to come out on top.

Seems to be a much different training philosophy. Which is better or worse for 1500m is hard for me to tell.

Knowing a little about each group's philosophy, I think you're reading way too much into a single workout for each...

I certainly wouldn't doubt for a second that this year had its purpose and Shannon had some great efforts, so I am more than excited for the next two years.

I don't know if I agree with the sentiment of the 1500 being more open than the 5k though. When we see top form from Burka, Alimnova (clean or not), Jamal, Belete, the Brits, and the several Americans who have run at or under 4 minutes, it's just as competitive. I understand that the 5k has two African women who can beat the AR by 30 seconds, but when that race is slowed down to tactical in a championship scenario, I feel Shannon could fair just as well there as she does at 15. I guess we won't know until she gets into a fast loaded up 5k, which would be awesome!

Jenny B has been out of action this year, and many runners have been tinkering with their training in an attempt to peak in August. Maybe the longer Diamond League and the off year year have encouraged them to run too many races, too.

This year has been pretty disappointing for the American women especially Pierce and Wurth Thomas. I think it might have been easy to overrate Shannon because her luck was quite fortuitous to get a bronze. Rodriguez and Burka were stronger runs in Berlin and both were eliminated in the shoving incident. That's also not factoring in that Langat is back to her Olympic form. Nearly all of the major Europeans races are stacked with Burka, Alminova, Dobriskey, Langat etc., so victories are not easy to come by. I'd say Rowbury for the most part (to paraphase Denny Green) is what she has been the past couple years. She is competitive with the best and does her best to not get dropped. By the end, she doesn't have the extra gear or fitness to stay with them and then kick and contend for the win. Pierce has been wildly inconsistent, and for her tools (steeple chops/800 speed) you'd think she'd be able to be a monster in the event. I think Wurth Thomas' problem has been the length and grind of the season. She's been up and down in her races, though at her best she ran 3:59 where she did a lot of work.

Reality Checker wrote:

Don't worry Hasay 2012!

Hasay! LOLOLOL! Ciara Mageean destroyed her at the World Juniors! You guys hype up american distance runners no end on this forum!

did Pierce and Uceny simply drop out? previous race was simply a pile up, but what happened here? is there a video? thx

Uceny stepped off with a lap to go, dunno about pierce. No videos from this meet except Rudisha's WR

little help wrote:

did Pierce and Uceny simply drop out? previous race was simply a pile up, but what happened here? is there a video? thx

You are full of crap to say that Rowbury was lucky to get a bronze.

Was everyone who beat Jamal "lucky" because she had a bad year (with the exception of Rieti)?

Was Gay "lucky" because he beat Bolt in Stockholm?

Was Rudisha "lucky" because the conditions were perfect for a world record?

I can go on and on and on with "lucky" scenarios.

The circumstances are what they are on any give race day. Rowbury earned her bronze medal. Why can't you just accept that fact and move on?

One more point.

If Rowbury is so overrated, why has she been the most consistantly competitive American performer for the past 3 years?

Perhaps she isn't your favorite, but your comments are really out of line.