K Smith wrote: Semenya to Rupp? That's a non sequitur. Why do you care what really happened?
Hmmm, you posted a really dumb comment. You out non sequitur-ed the person poster. I doubt you can see that you did that. I'm not surprised in the least if you can't.
Ross Tucker wrote:Komen looked comfortable in the 7:20, there wasn't much room to improve there.
nonsense
his last km was slowest of all 3 & last lap, when he clocked 6'21+ was slowest of all 7.5
you expect 56/57 at worst from bell
he was screwed by wild 1st km
if he'd/it'd been run "evenly", he'd have been looking at
~ high-7'18/low-7'19
Hoganoid Hero wrote:
Anyone else think she looks more feminine now? I don't know what it is- she looks to have a higher bodyfat % than before, which would back up the idea that she's taking estrogen now, but it could just be a conscious effort to appear feminine.
i agree that she seems to be a little chubbier. even if that is objectively true, obviously i have no idea why (hormone treatment, being out of shape a little, and simply aging a year are all possibilities it seems).
Unfortunately everything Somenya does is being spun into something nefarious.
When she wins a race he/she's superhuman and could run 1:49 if he/she so wishes
When she loses or looks unimpressive it's all part of a great conspiracy to make her look more 'womanly'
come-on guys. After all she's gone through for the past year do you really think she cares what fellow athletes and fans think of her? Of course she doesn't.
He's a FRAUD, baby, a FRAUD.
He doesn't give a shit.
Besides the point. The point is that his effort was maximal - that's why he slowed down in the final kilometer and final lap. Semenya did too, but neither LOOKED completely strained doing it. So my point is that you cannot always judge an athlete's effort by how they appear, as you'll see if you stick to the context of the debate.
Ross
I'm not sure they'll achieve much outside of being seen to be doing something. There was a meeting in Miami last year in about November, if I recall, where a group also got together and discussed it for a few days and basically said nothing new.
As far as I can tell, there is no standard for sex determination, because there is a continuum of conditions - even with AIS (which I believe is the case with Semenya), you get some women who it barely affects, others are affected a great deal (in terms of muscle development, secondary male characteristics). So what do you do? You can't ban them all. Or maybe you can. If that was the case, then sex determination would be done on the presence of a Y-chromosome. That's what they tried initially (in the 60s/70s), but it discriminated against those women with AIS who had no advantage.
So I can't see them coming up with anything that is useful or resolves the problem.
On Semenya, she does appear to have more body fat, but I would again be careful to judge on appearance only. Also, that might be that she's less trained, who knows? I am reasonably confident that the IAAF would have required some kind of medical treatment, and as I've said, if I had to guess, she'll get slower by a second or two for the next 3 or 4 years. Then again, it's a guess.
Ross
Ross Tucker wrote:
I am reasonably confident that the IAAF would have required some kind of medical treatment, and as I've said, if I had to guess, she'll get slower by a second or two for the next 3 or 4 years. Then again, it's a guess.
Oh well we'll just take your word for it then.
After all they are just women's races and don't matter that much.
Semen? Yeah!!
What's shocking is how muscular and strong she looks. She looks totally out of place with the other runners. It's like 10 balerinas and a defensive back from the NFL. She may be a she but she more resembles an East German swimmer from the 70's.
Ross Tucker wrote:
Besides the point. The point is that his effort was maximal - that's why he slowed down in the final kilometer and final lap. Semenya did too, but neither LOOKED completely strained doing it. So my point is that you cannot always judge an athlete's effort by how they appear, as you'll see if you stick to the context of the debate.
Ross
Link to race?
Doesn't matter...Komen was drugged up to his eyeballs.
ventolin^3 wrote:
Ross Tucker wrote:Komen looked comfortable in the 7:20, there wasn't much room to improve there.nonsense
his last km was slowest of all 3 & last lap, when he clocked 6'21+ was slowest of all 7.5
you expect 56/57 at worst from bell
he was screwed by wild 1st km
if he'd/it'd been run "evenly", he'd have been looking at
~ high-7'18/low-7'19
Ross Tucker wrote:Besides the point. The point is that his effort was maximal - that's why he slowed down in the final kilometer and final lap. Semenya did too, but neither LOOKED completely strained doing it. So my point is that you cannot always judge an athlete's effort by how they appear, as you'll see if you stick to the context of the debate.
Ross
you are clearly clueless
he slowed down in last lap because of uneveness & rapidity of previous 2 1km splits
morceli gave "maximal effort" overall when he he ran 7'25wr, but his splits were 5'01 / 2'24 !!!
"maximal effort" overall but no way nearer the fastest he couda run that day with sensible wabbiting
Ross Tucker wrote:Ross
Ross, god damn, you should know better. Stop being a jackass, you a doctor who is meant to have credibility
Ventolin,
I'm not disagreeing with you at all. You're right about the pacing, but making a point that is out of context.
The OP was saying that Semenya LOOKED comfortable and thus might have been tanking on purpose. My point in raising Komen (and I could have raised any number of athletes here), is that some athletes look comfortable even at maximum EFFORT. And unless you're suggesting that Komen's final lap was deliberately tanked, he was going maximally for the context of the race. Not maximum pace - this is an obvious distinction you seem to have missed - the distinction between effort and output.
I'm not even sure why you're debating that pacing strategy - it's irrelevant to the OP and the thread, but you are certainly flexing your analytical muscles with your great pacing insights. Which are 100% correct, Komen's 3000WR was not paced optimally - congratulations on your conclusion.
But the debate is on the appearance of maximal effort during the run, and the fact that you cannot gauge some athlete's effort based on what they look like. Therefore, I stand by my original opinion that Semenya is not necessarily tanking just because she looks comfortable doing it.
As for that final post, Free Willy, what do you mean? Enlighten me with "better" and help my credibility if you can.
Ross
Ventolin, Free Willy
Guys, chill. Ventolin, you're hijacking the thread to show us all how clever you are (as usual), and then you label people 'clearly clueless', when you're actually agreeing with them. Your original post only backs up what Ross is saying about the pace - you just aren't sharp enough to have insight to your numbers.
And Free Willy, what a troll. Make a point, don't be stupid.
Ross, thanks for your thoughts, always welcome, sorry you had to encounter the small peni$es on the thread.
Ross Tucker wrote:I'm not disagreeing with you at all. You're right about the pacing, but making a point that is out of context
no
idiot
i was replying to this quote ( or can't you read ?? )
Komen looked comfortable in the 7:20, there wasn't much room to improve there
And unless you're suggesting that Komen's final lap was deliberately tanked, he was going maximally for the context of the race. Not maximum pace - this is an obvious distinction you seem to have missed - the distinction between effort and output
idiot
i'm not drivelling about nebulous rubbish
komen was almost wasted by bell hitting 6'21 off some wild laps that instead of something like a 56/57 finish that's usually expected in a 3k pb race for any <7'30 guy, he coud barely muster a 59
is this concept too difficult for you ??
Ventolin, you dumb c***.
Read what people are saying. Even with Komen's ridiculous pacing and him dying, he appeared in his running form and facial expression, to not be suffering at all on the last lap. Now, Ventidiot follow this idea closely, unless Komen intentionally tanked his last lap, little insight into whether an athlete tanked can be derived by their physical appearance alone.
That is all anyone is trying to say. Is that too much for your little pea brain to comprehend?
moroness
this is not drivel about facial expressions
can you not even do basic arithmetic ???
6'21+ at bell is even pace finish for
7'19.6+
he FADED last lap
imbecile
he didn't "intentionally tank" his last lap
he was almost wasted by wild laps in the 6'21 & held on greatly to a 7'20.67 when even the commentators on last lap were still more concerned he might fade to barely break morceli's 7'25 rather than actually crack 7'20