For those who have experience with Higher Mileage (120+) weeks

I've run 120 or more miles in a week at least 50 times, over 150 once. No matter what absolute level you reach, it's worth it if you relish the challenge and above all enjoy the process. Only you can determine that.

It takes either a strange mindset or a physical addiction to running or both to stick with 120-mile weeks, because there will be periods where it's a drag and the obsession with being the best you can be and pushing out your boundaries will have to take over. At the same time, listening to warning signs of excessive fatigue, inadequate hydration/nutrition or incipient injury is very important, and if you have a do-or-die attitude, heeding the warnings will require letting your rational mind trump the monomaniacal nature.

Being fairly tired may pass. Feeling run ragged, having poor sleep or excessive sleep, high morning heart rate, the sensation of grinding joints, chronic illness - those are obvious signs of overdoing it. You'll have to find your limits by trial and error and there will probably be some setbacks along the way. Most of all, just do it because you love to run and thrive on the challenge of getting better at it.

Classes, 9AM to 2PM

First run of the day.

Carb and veggie dinner.

7PM - 10PM Evening Classes

10:30pm, 2nd run of the day.

Midnight, sex with porn star body college girlfriend.

1AM - pasta or granola midnight snack.

Weekly average in base phase: 128 miles per week.

Most of it on Pre's trail, non-pavement.

How I went from 60MPW to 128MPW?

Moved two a day runs up in increments of 20 mins at a time, ran slower/easier in the adaptation phase, FOCUSED intensely on perfecting my form to be maximally efficient.

This will sound funny...but I was one of those guys with too much bounce, running too much on my toes.

So I figured to correct that I needed to overcompensate. So I visualized imitating Alberto Salazar's efficiency, knowing that I could never achieve his knock kneed form, but that I could run "lower to the ground" and more forward than mid distance springy. It was probably a very slight adjustment to the outside eye, but visualizing someone whom I thought was a very efficient runner, as far as moving forward in spacing and not bouncing up and down...allowed me to find an efficient energy saving rhythm.

I thought of this base phase as training the heart, not the legs. Train the heart, the legs will come along.

Why 128MPW? Because at the start my goal was 2 9 mile runs a day. Then it shifted to whatever I wanted, 6 and then 12 or whatever.

Good Luck.

Malmo,

I noticed from your schedules that your dislocated shoulder coincided with the weeks leading up to the NCAA and AAU meets, and your mileage also dropped at the same time. Would you have still dropped your mileage the same amount had you not dislocated your shoulder?

Wow, malmo, that's outstanding. Let me see if I can pick out the trends here.

- Workouts Mon & Wed, then race Saturday.

- One workout each week is something hard and fast, such as hills or repeat 400's. Those 400's started in September at 65, probably close to 3k race pace at the time for you (8:07). By the end of the season they are closer to 60, or mile race pace.

- Other workout each week looks like it's more strength/endurance stuff. Your 29:07 10k race is 4:41 mile pace, so...the repeat 800's are probably more like 5k pace. Toward the end I see repeats of 1.5 miles, some fartleks, a 9.5 mile tempo. All endurance stuff.

- Not much emphasis on the long run, you've got a 15 miler, 16 miler, 14, 16, another 15...but really it's lots of 10-11 mile runs, which is probably taking you 55-60 minutes.

- Big emphasis on doubles. Actually we can't even call it emphasis, it's just how you trained, doubles are standard for the course.

It's impressive to see. I'm amazed you could recover well enough, like your 116 mile goes hard day, hard day, moderate, hard, two moderate runs on Friday, easy, then race. Amazing.

Also, the jump in mileage from summer to fall with no injury. Again, impressive.

So how do we start to be like this? Just start with our morning runs and take it from there?

Sagarin wrote:

I don't see how you could major in engineering or a hard science on this schedule. So you have to weigh it, because unless you are one of the uber-talented, running isn't going to be how you make your living, and a "liberal arts" degree ain't gonna cut it anymore.

I'm an engineering major, don't quite get up to 120 (only 100), but the time difference would be minimal. I generally don't have any problems with getting my work done and still recovering, but doing group work is tough because everyone else seems to do their work from 10 PM-2 AM. That's obviously not great when I'm running at 6 every morning.

You do have to be disciplined if you want to do a difficult major and train seriously.

Disciplined, smart, and willing to assume maybe a higher probability of illness or injury. Good for you that you can do it...

Alan mentioned he ran up to 140 miles a week (while working a full time job to boot!) and ran a very respectable 2:32. There are men in this country who will never run that fast, there are others who could run 70 miles per week and hopefully run a strong time like that with that amount.

I hate to piss off letsrunners but in my freshman year I ran 2:33 off college 1500m training plus a longer run - mostly 50mpw, maybe 60 for the last month. When I tried to run longer (70+, tried over many years) I got injured every time.

I feel like a real wimp here but I know I'm not the only one. Not everyone gets good results on high mileage.

Malmo,

Could you post some training from your senior year of track so that we can see how to train through a long track season from indoors and still manage to pr outdoors?

This thread is clearly just an upgrade from the very popular "Malmo what's the best way to structure a 100 and 110 mile weeks?" thread.

NPennington wrote:

...Key things from my own experience that make the difference...

Thanks, very nice post.

Well, I just finished my 5th or 6th 120 mile week.

I'll admit my P.Rs are slow considering, 16:41, 34:15, 1:19:43, 2:52:11, but I love to run and don't want to be in my 50s and wonder what I could have done if I tried everything.

I live in Denver, so my paces are a little slower -- I ran 26 today ayb 8:00 pace, with the route starting at 5,200 ft and climbing to 6,300 ft on the way out, then back down.

I have been trying to do 10AM/6PM or something along those lines with a 22-24 mile long run on the weekend. I'll also do a long tempo like 10 miles @ 6:30 and some interval work.

Hoping to go 2:45 at NYC this year, hence the higher mileage. I'm not talented enough to do it on anyhting less.

-Brian

Gotta few 120s wrote:

Hoping to go 2:45 at NYC this year, hence the higher mileage. I'm not talented enough to do it on anyhting less.

-Brian

People on this thread:

I'm sick of hearing this shit. You often confuse lack of speed with lack of talent. You think "I'm slow, I need to run a lot of miles to improve my endurance". Endurance is important but without training speed it is useless. Beating yourself to death with 120-150 mile weeks does not make up for a lack of speed. Building a base is important but if you ignore speed you will NOT reach your potential. The Kenyans and Ethiopians run big miles but they also work on speed A LOT.

Get Real Real -

I know what you are talking about man. When I was handling higher mileage some years back I used to think about moving like Paul Tergat. I thought more about just gliding across the ground. While I am sure I never came close to resembling him, or running anywhere near as fast, it did seep in and allow me to pound less.

If you lack speed you're only going to improve it so much no matter what you do. Your biggest improvements are going to come from developing the endurance to run at closer to your top speeds longer. Someone stuck at 5:00 or 6:00 for the mile is not unable to get under those barriers because they don't have enough speed to run 75s or 90s for the 400. It's because they don't have the endurance to run 75s or 90s long enough and that's only going to change when they develop the endurance they need. I've been there.

Malmo,

I'm sure I'll have other questions later, but I'd like to get these out now.

Is there any particular reason why you ran very little in the summer compared to what you would be doing once the fall season rolled around?

No matter how much experience I get regarding running (I'm a high mileage person also), I always wonder just how to structure a taper. I find that it's something you can't be completely sure of and just have to go with what feels sort of right. So can you tell me this: after your season and taper were over, did you think of things during that taper that you would have done differently? Like did you taper too much/too little or just right? Or is it just not worth thinking about anyway?

this is pretty interesting wrote:

[1] Is there any particular reason why you ran very little in the summer compared to what you would be doing once the fall season rolled around?

[2] No matter how much experience I get regarding running (I'm a high mileage person also), I always wonder just how to structure a taper. I find that it's something you can't be completely sure of and just have to go with what feels sort of right. So can you tell me this: after your season and taper were over, did you think of things during that taper that you would have done differently? Like did you taper too much/too little or just right? Or is it just not worth thinking about anyway?

[1] After 3 seasons of running (XC, Indoors, Outdoors) from the beginning of September to end of July, do you really believe I should have been running MORE in the Summer? In the Summer I managed swimming pools, so I was very active. I can't think of anything more conducive to recharging the batteries than a summer of running, swimming, drinking beer and chasing girls. Can you?

[2] No, I wouldn't have done things differently, and yes, you are thinking too much.

malmo wrote:[/b

[1] After 3 seasons of running (XC, Indoors, Outdoors) from the beginning of September to end of July,

End of June...

HRE wrote:

If you lack speed you're only going to improve it so much no matter what you do. Your biggest improvements are going to come from developing the endurance to run at closer to your top speeds longer. Someone stuck at 5:00 or 6:00 for the mile is not unable to get under those barriers because they don't have enough speed to run 75s or 90s for the 400. It's because they don't have the endurance to run 75s or 90s long enough and that's only going to change when they develop the endurance they need. I've been there.

But when someone runs 5:15 for the mile, 16:55 for 5k, 34:30 for 10k, 1:15 for the 1/2 and 2:40 for the marathon (similar to a few of the profiles posted on this thread), they are not going to get much faster by increasing the miles from 100 to 120 (or higher). THEY NEED TO INCREASE SPEED WHILE MAINTAINING ENDURANCE.

young gun 22 wrote:

Could you post some training from your senior year of track so that we can see how to train through a long track season from indoors and still manage to pr outdoors?

12/19 - 12/25 75 miles

12/19 S - PM 11 easy

12/20 M - PM 10 easy PM 2 easy, 600yards(1:18), 4 x 400 (untimed), 1 easy

12/21 T - AM 6 easy PM 10 easy

12/22 W - PM 10 easy

12/23 T - AM 6 easy

12/24 F - AM 10 easy PM 10 easy

12/25 S - rest

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12/26 - 1/1 104 miles

12/26 S - PM 10 easy

12/27 M - PM 16 easy

12/28 T - AM 10 easy PM 10 easy

12/29 W - AM 10 easy PM 10 easy

12/30 T - PM 13 easy

12/31 F - PM 15 easy

1/1 S - PM 10 easy

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1/2 - 1/8 97 miles

1/2 S - PM 15 easy

1/3 M - PM 3 easy, 800(1:58.0), 4 easy

1/4 T - AM 7 easy PM 10 easy

1/5 W - AM 7 easy PM 3 easy, 4x800(2:12,2:12,2:13,2:11), 4x400(66,65,64,63), 3 easy

1/6 T - PM 4 easy, 6x Park Forrest Hill, 5 easy

1/7 F - AM 7 easy PM 5 easy, 5x200

1/8 S - AM 7 easy PM 8 easy

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1/9 - 1/15 94 miles

1/9 S - AM Widner 4 easy, 1 mile(4:12.4), 1 easy, 800 (1:58.6)

1/10 M - AM 11 easy PM 5 easy

1/11 T - PM 3 easy, 3x800(2:08.8,2:08.2,2:09.4) w/400 jog, 4x400(63,63,61,56) w/200 jog

1/12 W - AM 6 easy PM 10 easy

1/13 T - AM 7 easy PM 10 easy

1/14 F - AM 5 easy PM CYO INVITE 3 easy, 2 mile (8:39.8), 3 easy

1/15 S - PM 11 easy

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1/16 - 1/22 89 miles

1/16 S - PM 14 slow

1/17 M - AM 5 easy PM 3 easy, 12x400(64,63,64,62,66,65,64,64,63,63,63,61) 3 easy

1/18 T - AM 7 easy PM 10 easy, 10x50 hard, 1 easy

1/19 W - AM 4 easy PM 3 easy, 6x300, 6x200, 3 easy

1/20 T - PM 10 slow

1/21 F - PM PHILLY CLASSIC: 3 easy, 1 mile (4:06.7), 3 easy

1/22 S - PM 10 easy

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1/23 - 1/29 76 miles

1/23 S - PM 17 easy

1/24 M - AM 5 moderate PM 3 easy, 4x800(2:07.5,2:08.5,2:09.0,2:09.3) w/400 jog, 4x400(59.2,58.4,61.0,60.2) w/200jog, 3 easy

1/25 T - AM 5 easy PM 10 easy

1/26 W - PM 3 easy, 4x400 (60), 4x300, 4x200, 3 easy

1/27 T - PM 10 easy

1/28 F - rest

1/29 S - PM PITT INVITE: 3 easy, 2 mile(8:43.8, 1st), 4 easy

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1/30 - 2/5 95 miles

1/30 S - PM 11 easy

1/31 M - AM 6 easy PM 3 easy, 4x800(2:07.0,2:07.6,2:07.9,2:07.4), 4x400(62.0,61.6,62.0,57.8) 3 easy

2/1 T - AM 5 easy PM 10 easy

2/2 W - PM 2 easy, 4x400(63.5,61.6,62.0,62.2) 4x300(46.0,44.8,43.7,43.8), 4x200(30.4,30.2,30.0,29.0), 4 easy

2/3 T - AM 5 easy PM 11 easy

2/4 F - AM 7 easy PM 9 easy, 10x50

2/5 S - PM 10 easy

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2/6 - 2/12 89 miles

2/6 S - AM PRINCETON RELAYS: 3 easy, 1 mile(4:02.7) of DMR(2nd), 5 slow

2/7 M - PM 10 easy

2/8 T - AM 7 easy PM 3 easy, 4x800(2:07,2:08,2:08,2:06), 4x400(62.5,62.0,63.5,57.6), 3 easy

2/9 W - AM 6 easy, PM 9 easy

Foot Injury peroneus longus

2/10 T - PM 3 easy, 4x400(62,63,61,61), 4x600(45,45,45,44), 4x200(31,30,29,27), 3 easy

2/11 F - AM 7 easy PM 10 easy

2/12 S - PM 10 easy

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2/13 - 2/19 52 miles Foot Injury

2/13 S - AM DELAWARE INVITE: 3 easy, 800(1:56.8), 1 easy, 1200(3:03.2), 1 easy, 1000yd (2:15.2), 2 easy

2/14 M - PM 10 easy

2/15 T - AM 5 easy PM easy

2/16 W - PM 10 easy

2/17 T - rest

2/18 F - rest

2/19 S - PM CENTRAL COLLEGIATES: 4 mile easy, 1 mile race (knocked down), 1 mile easy, 2 mile (9:04.8, 5th)

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2/20 - 2/26 0 miles Foot injury rest week

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2/27 - 3/5 81 miles Foot injury

2/27 S - PM 10 easy

2/28 M - PM 10 easy

3/1 T - PM 10 easy

3/2 W - PM 10 easy

3/3 T - AM 10 easy PM 1 easy, 9.5 mile loop (50:59), 4 easy

3/4 F - PM 10 easy

3/5 S - PM Bucknell College, 3 easy, 10x400(63-66), 3 easy

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3/6 - 3/12 80 miles Foot better

3/6 S - PM 17 easy

3/7 M - AM 4 easy PM 10 easy

3/8 T - PM 3 easy, 2x800(2:10,2:18), 4x400(62,63,63,57), 3 easy

3/9 W - PM 12 easy

3/10 T - PM 9 easy

3/11 F - AM 2 easy PM NCAA HEATS: 3 easy, 1 mile (4:08) of DMR, 1 easy

3/12 S - PM NCAA FINALS: DMR 1 mile (4:04.8, 3rd) 1 easy

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3/13 - 3/19 120 miles

3/13 S - PM 12 slow

3/14 M - AM 10 easy PM 11 easy

3/15 T - AM 9 easy PM 10 easy

3/16 W - PM 2 easy, 10x Squirrel Hill, 4 easy

3/17 T - AM 9 easy PM 10 easy

3/18 F - AM 8 easy PM 9 easy

3/19 S - AM 1 easy, 9.5 mile loop 51:15, 1 easy PM 11 easy

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3/20 - 3/26 62 miles

3/20 S - PM 17 easy

3/21 M - AM 11 easy PM 3 easy, 6x800(2:09,2:12,2:07,2:15,2:13,2:13), 2 easy

3/22 T - AM 5 slow PM 10 moderate

3/23 W - AM 10 easy STRESS FRACTURE, 4th Metatarsal

3/24 rest

3/25 rest

3/26 rest

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3/27 - 4/2 42 miles Stress fracture

3/27 S - PM 5 easy

3/28 M - PM 5 easy

3/29 T - PM 5 easy

3/30 W - AM 5 slow PM 7 slow

3/31 T - rest

4/1 F - AM 5 easy PM 6 slow

4/2 S - AM 4 slow

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4/3 - 4/9 57 miles Stress fracture

4/3 S - PM 10 slow

4/4 M - PM 10 slow

4/5 T - PM 10 slow

4/6 W - rest

4/7 T - PM 7 slow

4/8 F - AM 1 slow, 9.5 fast (48:07)

4/9 S - PM 10 slow

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4/10 - 4/16 77 miles Stress fracture

4/10 S - rest

4/11 M - AM 7 easy PM 5 slow, 5x400(63,61,65,61,58), 3 slow

4/12 T - PM 9 slow

4/13 W - AM 7 slow PM 10 easy

4/14 T - AM 7 easy PM 7 slow

4/15 F - AM 1 slow PM DOGWOOD RELAYS: 3 slow, 1 mile (4:09.1) of 4x1mile(16:31), 2 slow

4/16 S - AM 8 easy PM 4 slow

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4/17 - 4/23 94 miles Stress fracture

4/17 S - AM 7 easy PM 10 easy

4/18 M - PM 3 slow, 2x800(2:08,2:07), 6x400(61,61,60,61,61,58), 3 easy

4/19 T - AM 6 easy PM 9 easy

4/20 W - AM 5 easy PM 3 easy, 10x400 on golf course, 3 easy

4/21 T - PM 9 easy, 10x100 stride, 1 slow

4/22 F - AM 5 easy PM 8 slow

4/23 S - RUTGERS RELAYS: 3 slow, 1 mile (4:16), 9 easy

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4/24 - 4/30 60 miles Stress fracture

4/24 S - PM 15 easy

4/25 M - AM 8 easy PM 3 easy, 2x800(2:14,2:12), 5x400(59,61,62,62,58) foot was really bad

4/26 T - PM 10 slow

4/27 W - rest

4/28 T - PM PENN RELAYS: 4 easy, 5000m (14:33), 3 slow

4/29 F - AM 5 slow

4/30 S - PM PENN RELAYS: 3 easy, 1500m (3:47.7) of 4x1500(15:14.5 2nd), 1 slow

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5/1 - 5/7 90 miles Foot feels better

5/1 S - PM 16 easy

5/2 M - AM 7 easy PM 3 easy, 2x800(2:09,2:07), 6x400(61,60,62,61,61,57), 3 easy

5/3 T - PM 10 slow

5/4 W - AM 6 easy PM 4 easy, 4x400(60.2,59.7,60.3,60.7), 4x200(27.2,27.0,27.1,26.8), 3 slow

5/5 T - AM 5 easy PM 10 easy

5/6 F - PM 8 easy

5/7 S - PM vs: MARYLAND/USMC: 3 easy, 1500m (3:42.2, 1st), 4 slow

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5/8 - 5/14 96 miles

5/8 S - PM 15 slow

5/9 M - AM 8 easy PM 10 easy

5/10 T - AM 7 easy PM 3 slow, 10x400(62-63), 3 slow

5/11 W - AM 7 moderate PM 10 slow

5/12 T - PM 9 easy

5/13 F - AM 5 easy PM 5 easy

5/14 S - PM PITT INVITE: 3 easy, 3 miles(13:28, 1st), 3 easy

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5/15 - 5/21 85 miles

5/15 S - rest

5/16 M - AM 11 easy PM 3 easy, 3x800(2:06,2:03,2:02), 4x400(60,58,60,57) 3 slow

5/17 T - AM 6 easy PM 7 easy, 10x100 strides

5/18 W - AM 9 easy PM 3 easy, 2x400(60,56), 6x200(29,29,28,28,28,26.4), 3 slow

5/19 T - PM 5 slow

5/20 F - PM PSU OPEN: 3 easy, 1500m (3:46.6, 1st), 5 easy

5/21 S - AM 11 easy PM 9 easy

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5/22 - 5/28 89 miles

5/22 S - PM 17 slow

5/23 M - AM 5 easy PM 3 easy, 10x400(62,last 53.6), 3 slow

5/24 T - PM 10 easy

5/25 W - PM 10 easy

5/26 T - AM 5 slow PM 5 slow

5/27 F - AM 3 easy PM Central Collegiates 3 easy, 3000sc (8:48.6, 2nd), 4 slow

5/28 S - AM 2 easy PM Central Collegiates 2 easy, 1500m (3:43.7, 2nd), 2 slow NIGHT 7 slow

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5/29 - 6-4 81 miles

5/29 S - AM 3 easy PM 10 easy

5/30 M - AM 2 easy PM 2 easy, 800(1:57), 6x400(60,59,60,59,58,57), 3 easy

5/31 T - AM 4 easy PM 8 easy, 8x100 strides

6/1 W - AM 4 easy PM 7 easy, 8x100 strides

6/2 T - AM 2 easy PM NCAA HEATS: 4 easy, 5000m (14:03), 4 slow

6/3 F - AM 4 easy PM 6 easy

6/4 S - AM 2 slow PM NCAA FINALS: 3 easy 5000m (DNF, very hot) Evening: 4 very slow

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6/5 - 6/11 87 miles

6/5 S - PM 14 easy

6/6 M - PM 14 easy

6/7 T - PM 13 easy

6/8 W - AM 5 easy PM 7 easy

6/9 T - AM 3 slow PM AAU HEATS: 3 easy, 3000sc (8:35.0), 4 easy

6/10 F - AM 5 easy PM 5 easy

6/11 S - AM 3 slow PM AAU FINALS: 3 easy, 3000sc (8:22.54 AR), 4 slow

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