All I've done for the pass 4 weeks is stretch and I've completely lost the pain in my legs that was dwelling for months. My strength is 100 percent too.
All I've done for the pass 4 weeks is stretch and I've completely lost the pain in my legs that was dwelling for months. My strength is 100 percent too.
Runningart2004 wrote:
PT's have varied education levels. PT was an undergrad program, then a Master's and now it's a PhD.
PT is also about continued education.
Education doesn't matter. I know people who have never been to college who know more about physical rehabilitation than most Ph.D therapists just because they have read the right books as opposed to the wrong ones. A lot of the time, what happens is that someone goes to school and gets brainwashed into some bad theory like neoclassical economics or feminist philosophy. The same thing happens in PT.
casual commentary wrote:
The 5 year thing isn't true anymore Mr 777, Physical Therapy is becoming a PhD profession and fast.
Which is fantastic, but won't have a big impact for a while, since Joe Jockhead class of '95 will still be telling runners to "take a few weeks off and do some ankle circles" for years to come.
dfsfdsfs wrote:
Education doesn't matter. I know people who have never been to college who know more about physical rehabilitation than most Ph.D therapists just because they have read the right books as opposed to the wrong ones. A lot of the time, what happens is that someone goes to school and gets brainwashed into some bad theory like neoclassical economics or feminist philosophy. The same thing happens in PT.
what are you smoking? LMAO
PT is not a waste of time if,
a) your PT is experienced and/or smart
b) you do your part in treatment...that doesn't mean doing all the exercises/stretches while you're in the clinic, but doing the stretches or pulling on your stupid pink bands at home. If your exercise program is too easy and you want to be challenged, SAY SO. We enjoy working with people who are actually in therapy to get better...not just to milk their work comp, or to have someone to cry and whine to, or to brag to.
I've been doing this for 5 years now and rarely do you ever see a person come through who is COMPLIANT who does not improve. In my opinion, there are 2 reasons that people don't improve with PT:
a) they are not compliant- either not doing exercises, not doing them correctly, doing too much, not following restrictions, not taking time off from their activities, etc.
b) something bigger is going on. For many doctors who see patients complaining of pain, the first thing they do is prescribe some sort of medication and PT. If that doesn't help then they usually go back to the doctor and half the time those people end up getting surgery. We have seen so many patients who come to PT saying "the doctor said I would have to try this first and if it didn't work I need surgery."
And FYI a Doctorate in PT is not a cake walk program that any Joe Blow can go through now. It's very difficult to get into PT school and it will only get harder in the coming years. They are even encouraging PTs who earned a Masters degree 15 years ago (because that was all there was then) to go back and get a transitional doctorate.
And no, PT will not be going anywhere. ever. There is much much much MUCH more to the field of PT than (trying to) helping out cranky runners with bad knees who don't want to do their exercises because they weren't 100% healed after their first visit.
one more thing: runners are usually our most pain in the ass- high maintenance- know it all- stubborn patients. I can think of very few runners I've worked with who have been a joy to treat.
I like running alot, but work in acute care. If I don't go get people out of bed, they don't get out of bed...OK maybe a hoyer lift. Runner's say with a complete lack of irony, "Gee, I have been running on this bad knee for a week and it's still not any better."
PT2 wrote:
one more thing: runners are usually our most pain in the ass- high maintenance- know it all- stubborn patients. I can think of very few runners I've worked with who have been a joy to treat.
dissatsifaction wrote:
Totally apart from the fact that these treatments seem to have absolutely no value whatsoever, it seems that therapists are just trying to "milk" your insurance by administering as many modalities as it will pay for.
I don't know if it is a complete joke or not but I have found, universally speaking, that anyone who uses words like "modalities" is a completely pretentious ass.
- I think you bring up some valid points. First off, does research really support all the diseases/diagnosis that PT's treat now? NO. You will find some research articles that conclude that the entire umbrella of rehabilitation services (PT/OT/SLP etc.) does indeed speed up the recovery process but most research states that "there is not enough evidence" to support that solely physical therapy will do this. So why then is there such a massive fad for going to see a PT? Why are other more specialized professions in the area of prevention per say taking a back seat to PT's? I do not understand this either. Yes PT is definitely becoming more medically based and steering clear away from the "exercise/sport" mentality...then why are most of the treatments offered by PT's based on strength and conditioning when currently most of the DPT programs do not even have a strength and conditioning course within their curriculum?
Also... to correct you it is NOT a PhD that physical therapist's recieve it is a doctrates in physical therapy. Actually, in order for therapist's with a DPT to be a professor for example they must continue on with their schooling and get a PhD. It's very different PhD vs. DPT.
I'll be honest, and cynical, too, and tell you that from my point of view, as a referring doc, I love PT's. I get so many overweight people in my office complaining about knee and back pain, and so many obese teens with sprained ankles, that I don't know what I'd do without the PT referral. I can do a quick exam and suggest maybe their 250 lb bodies are contributing, then send them on their ways. I doubt the PT can fix them, but it lets me turf them, and the PT gets some business, so I guess it's win-win.
Seriously, my only personal experience with pt's was when my son fell and bashed his knee and got a bone bruise. The pt's tried everything to speed his recovery but I suspect it would have taken just as long even without therapy. After all, there is a limit as to how fast the body can heal. I think the psychological benefit to my son was helpful, though, since at least he felt he was doing everything possible to recover.
This is what I do not understand about the current medical/insurance/referral process right now. Why are Physical Therapist's the most appropriate people for patients with obesity, and other chronic illnesses? Why are not other professions like clinical exercise physiologists which take a more preventative approach, and are also specialized in determining appropriate exercise plans for special populations...why are these professionals taking a back seat to Physical Therapists? I actually asked a recent DPT grad this question and the response was that exercise physiology is not science based enough. But I do not understand this since much of the scientific research done on exercise and its benefits (which may be why PT has become so popular in the first place) have been conducted by exercise physiologists! This recent grad also mentioned that APTA envisions that DPT will be equivalent in the near future to a DO.....
dfsfdsfs wrote:
Education doesn't matter. I know people who have never been to college who know more about physical rehabilitation than most Ph.D therapists just because they have read the right books as opposed to the wrong ones. A lot of the time, what happens is that someone goes to school and gets brainwashed into some bad theory like neoclassical economics or feminist philosophy. The same thing happens in PT.
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what are you smoking? LMAO
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Thank you Physical Therapy Student! Oh my god! This is classic! Brainwashed? C'mon! It's called a liberal (not a bad word!) arts degree to make one well-rounded & multi-faceted. Maybe, it'll make a person dynamic & allow him/her to contribute to society.
You know, dfsfdsfs, I'm sure you can listen to all the right-wing radio you want while you deliver pizzas for a living. Sigh.
doc in the house wrote:
I'll be honest, and cynical, too, and tell you that from my point of view, as a referring doc, I love PT's. I get so many overweight people in my office complaining about knee and back pain, and so many obese teens with sprained ankles, that I don't know what I'd do without the PT referral. I can do a quick exam and suggest maybe their 250 lb bodies are contributing, then send them on their ways. I doubt the PT can fix them, but it lets me turf them, and the PT gets some business, so I guess it's win-win.
Seriously, my only personal experience with pt's was when my son fell and bashed his knee and got a bone bruise. The pt's tried everything to speed his recovery but I suspect it would have taken just as long even without therapy. After all, there is a limit as to how fast the body can heal. I think the psychological benefit to my son was helpful, though, since at least he felt he was doing everything possible to recover.
This.
90% of a normal physical therapist's clients (even a "sports medicine PT") are fatasses with bad backs/knees/ankles, or worse, retarded people in wheelchairs. THEY'RE the ones who don't do their damn exercises. PTs then get this haughty "I know best and if you don't get better it's your fault!" attitude when they can't fix a runner, who actually has a real problem with a real cause (not just "my back hurts because I weight 300 pounds"). So they always blame the patient, instead of acknowledging their inability to treat the problem. Runners know their bodies like few other athletes, and a PT who doesn't listen to this (or labels it "being high maintenance") is just the kind of haughty, arrogant PT I'm talking about. They'll keep up with their damn phototherapy, e-stim, and other nonsense. Maybe they'll say something about "pelvic alignment" or "leg length discrepancy" to blame your problems on. (PTs can't asses pelvic tilt and leg length discrepancies correctly by hand--you need an X-ray to get an accurate result). And to "PT2" who claims that there have been few runners he (or she) has enjoyed treating: maybe it's because you're an arrogant asshole.
And I'd like to thank the REAL PTs out there, the few souls who actually do a good job in a profession full of cranks.
Exactly. Follow the money.
I have a PhD in crossfitology and I will say I get better results than those lame ass PTs all the time. I took this dude after he had a stroke made him do a ton of burpees and clean and jerks, and kipping pull ups and now he is strong as a horse on testosterone. All the injured runners who I deal with just get stronger and set awesome PRs.
while all men are created equal, not all physical therapists are created equal. This coming from a physical therapist. I would probably only go to about 10% of physical therapists for running injuries. You need to really do your research. Anybody in the Charlotte area give me a shout out. If a PT tells you to stop running for more than 3 days, find someone else.
PT like any profession has the standard spectrum of quality from low to high. PT is a very diverse profession with many different specialty areas and practice settings from rehab to peds, burns, home health, ortho, vestibular rehab etc. The obvious has already been stated, experience and specialty area are the key factors. Also compliance is a key factor as with any exercise program, consistency cures. Regarding the DPT degree, this is not as widely accepted as it sounds. True it is being implemented everywhere but it is mostly a "status grab" by the profession and a nice way for schools to grab those extra tuition $$$. The actual effect on practice is basically nothing as you are doing a research project. DPT grads gain nothing in salary or status in their new positions. The APTA offers specialty certifications which are clinically based and if you want to increase the likelihood of a qualified practitioner look for an Orthopedic or Manual therapy certification.
I have to totally disagree with you. I recently had major knee surgery and without the excellent PT I would have been in real trouble. They are (still) helping me gain strength and balance as well as mobility to my knee joint and leg in general. I think the problem isn't the PT, it's the American mind set that everything can be fixed fast with either a pill or PT. Unfortunately even aggressive treatment takes time.
I had a PT figure out and help me correct a serious achilles problem that dogged me for two years. Two sports docs, a podiatrist, and a trainer for an NBA franchise couldn't figure it out, but the PT did.