1980 Olympic Trials 10000m photo

No? Actually that WAS the race. If the pace was so slow then he should have been able to run faster. In any case he should have been able to place, considering his prowess on the roads. As it was, if he went out in 13:43 then he went out too fast not too slow.

J.R. wrote:

No? Actually that WAS the race. If the pace was so slow then he should have been able to run faster. In any case he should have been able to place, considering his prowess on the roads. As it was, if he went out in 13:43 then he went out too fast not too slow.

Why do you say the pace was slow? Virgin was running at Sub 27:30 pace for the 1st 5000. Lindseys best 10k was 28:05.

Lindsey was beating up on nobodies or people that wern't in top condition on the roads. His best 10k was 28:05, and he finish 6th in that race.

I have 2 vivid memories of Fredericks. Both involve a blistering kick that humbled many. First was his AR for 10k when he outkicked Shorter (?) and ran about a 53(a guess) last 400. The next was the US XC Championships where he exploded the last 200-300mtrs and walked away from the field. It did seem he was 'there' a lot. I still think personally that given the right circumstances he could have medalled in a major Int'l event.

Some Herbage here, including a photo of him hanging on to Virgin at the 80 Trials. As to beating a lot of nobodies on the roads, he took some impressive scalps at the Midland Run -- BR, Viren, Rono -- but I'm sure not all of those guys were sharp for it. In fact, I think Rono flew in but ran poorly. I may look up the photo later from RW, but I sem to remember Flora, Roche maybe, and other accomplished roadies.

Barnicle wrote:

Why do you say the pace was slow?

Is it really that difficult.

Lindsay was ticked, because Lindsay felt Virgin was running too slow. He said it was hard to run so slowly. Got it? And that's why he fell back. If it was to slow, then he should have taken the lead and run faster.

Lindsey was beating up on nobodies or people that wern't in top condition on the roads. His best 10k was 28:05, and he finish 6th in that race.

Lindsay beat everyone who ran on the roads at the time. You sound like someone with sour grapes. My point is that HE thought the pace was too slow, therefore he should have run faster - since HE felt that way. What happened was that he went out too FAST not too slow.

Barnicle wrote:

Lindseys best 10k was 28:05.

28:05 would have placed him in 3rd.

He ended up running 28:30 in 9th place.

Because the pace was TOO SLOW - get it.

Therefore, he should have run faster.

malmo wrote:

The guy between Sandoval and Geis, is probably Mark Anderson or Jeff Wells, (I'm leaning to the Sparkler) although it could be Mike Buhmann caught bouncing high in the air.

I'd say Buhmann is the guy obscured behind #291 (Mavis). Possible that it's Dan Dillon (not Ortiz) behind Alex's elbow? If it's Ortiz, he had to have been the youngest finalist. Was he a college soph?

malmo wrote:

The guy between Sandoval and Geis, is probably Mark Anderson or Jeff Wells, (I'm leaning to the Sparkler) although it could be Mike Buhmann caught bouncing high in the air.

Drew Eckmann wrote:

I'd say Buhmann is the guy obscured behind #291 (Mavis). Possible that it's Dan Dillon (not Ortiz) behind Alex's elbow? If it's Ortiz, he had to have been the youngest finalist. Was he a college soph?

.

Drew, that's Wysocki.

Ortiz is obvious.

This is nutty. The pace was fast from the gun, at almost a minute faster than Lindsay had ever run before.

You are aware that only a handful of people ran the roads before 1980? It was pretty much the same 12 people in every race. "Prowess" on the roads really didn't mean that much. Lindsay's best performance's up to the trials was a 47:02 ten mile and a 28:21 10k on the track. Neither of those times would indicate he was anywhere near a 28 min 10000 in him.

It was unfortunate for him that he bought into the hype by rags like Runners World and overinflated his prospects.

Lindsay ran 28:05 in 1984. His best up to 1980 was 28:21.

The two guys with the best credentials went 1-2.

last lap wrote:

Anyone else find Fredericks to be somnewhat enigmatic? Always "there", looking smooth (even amused, in this photo), but never in the limelight. I've seen so many photos of him and know nothing of him.

Enigmatic? Huh?

Fredericks and Virgin were the two most credentialed athletes in the race. They went 1-2. No mystery there.

malmo wrote:

This is nutty. The pace was fast from the gun, at almost a minute faster than Lindsay had ever run before.

Therefore, you think he was right that the pace was too slow.

Got it.

However if that was the case, why didn't he just take the lead and run faster. So I disagree with you.

Regardless of that, his 47:02 ten mile indicates he should have been able to place at least 3rd in that race. Also that he went out in 13:43 - which was bad pacing on his part.

J.R. wrote:

Regardless of that, his 47:02 ten mile indicates he should have been able to place at least 3rd in that race.

That's crazy.

Lindsay would have to run the race of his life to finish in the top three.

J.R. wrote:Therefore, you think he was right that the pace was too slow.

Got it.

However if that was the case, why didn't he just take the lead and run faster. So I disagree with you.

This is beyond crazy.

J.R. wrote:

Also that he went out in 13:43 - which was bad pacing on his part.

Virgin was all alone at 13:43.

SPLITS PACE (INTERMEDIATE SPLITS/PACE)

02:46.5 27:45.0 (2:46.5 27:45.0)

05:29.7 27:28.5 (2:43.2 27:12.0)

08:15.7 27:32.2 (2:46.0 27:40.0)

10:59.6 27:29.0 (2:43.9 27:19.0)

13:43.6 27:27.2 (2:44.0 27:20.0)

16:28.6 27:28.0 (2:45.0 27:30.0)

19:19.7 27:38.4 (2:51.1 28:31.0)

22:10.6 27:43.3 (2:50.9 28:29.0)

25:01.7 27:46.9 (2:51.1 28:31.0)

27:45.6 27:45.6 (2:43.9 27:19.1)

Jeff Wells. Two seconds away from making an Olympic team and two seconds away from winning Boston.

Herb Lindsay was the Chris Solinsky of the early 80s, both built like wrestlers.

wha bout Sprint? wrote:

Herb Lindsay was the Chris Solinsky of the early 80s, both built like wrestlers.

Neither are built like wrestlers. Paul Stemmer was though.

Hey Malmo, what is that white structure on the infield ... it looks like their running through some power lines.

That's the scoreboard.

Lindsay was consistently running 28:30 10Ks on the roads which would seem to indicate the ability to go 28:00 or better on the track. On the other hand, he seemed to better suited mentally and physically for the roads.