Just to throw out a counter datapoint here, my local running store is excellent. It is staffed by knowledgeable collegiate and post-collegiate runners, and they really do want to put people in the right shoes. No, they do not have medical degrees, but I have a doctor for that, I don't expect the guys getting paid $12 an hour to fix my medical problems.
Yes, that all makes sense in a way. But you can get the 2100s at Bob's Store or a similar place for less money than it'll cost at most specialty shops. The idea used to be that the specialty shop carried specialized products that weren't available at discount stores and runners were supposed to patronize the running shop and its higher prices to keep it in business and selling specialty products. If a running shop isn't going to carry anything that you can't get at a discount store why would anyone buy from them?
HRE wrote:
Yes, that all makes sense in a way. But you can get the 2100s at Bob's Store or a similar place for less money than it'll cost at most specialty shops. The idea used to be that the specialty shop carried specialized products that weren't available at discount stores and runners were supposed to patronize the running shop and its higher prices to keep it in business and selling specialty products. If a running shop isn't going to carry anything that you can't get at a discount store why would anyone buy from them?
Exactly! That's what I was thinking. I would actually prefer to shop at a local store, but...
Running Shops business is up 8 percent nationwide.
You don't live in a 'major' city... you live in a piece of sh!t city. Runners are weak and whiney douche bags.
SONICJ wrote:
I work at a shoe store and I believe I can answer most of your questions. First the reason for a bad shoe selection would be that the shoe store does not want to over stock and lose money. The reason why there are not a big selection of racing flats because for every 100 people that walks into a running store, maybe 1 or 2 of them are looking for racing flats because there are a lot more joggers than competitvie runners. Do the math and you figure out it is not worth supplying many racing flats. The reason behind the selection of xc/ track spikes is because high school kids will buy them and if you have 10 teams in the area and about 125 kids you supply to then it is money in the bank. The clothing selection sucks because majority of the people that walk into a running store do not care about running fast but if the look stupid running. Short shorts+45 year olds=scary. Same thing for the sleveless shirts. Those guys in their 40's and 50's think they are comfortable. I will agree that most people at running stores do not know what they are talking about because
a.Most do not have a degree in exercise sports science specifically in biomechanics.
b. They have not spent over hundreds and hundreds of hours studying feet and ankles.
c. They want to get rid of a shoe that is alright for you so there is less of an old shoe in stock.
d. They do not have the shoe in stock that is best for you.
e. They have not studied what they are selling well enough.
I hope this helps explains some of the reasons behind the lack of selection and quality at a shoe store. I will say there are some amazing shoe stores out there and there are some real bad shoe stores. Your best bet is to look at the running store web site before you come in. If they do not have a website then they probably are not that good.
this ^
(toi)letsrun wrote:
You don't live in a 'major' city... you live in a piece of sh!t city. Runners are weak and whiney douche bags.
You remind me of those douche-bag frat boys that holler at me from their SUVs when I'm running. They're always rocking the BACK too. I throw rocks at them.
This is old ground....
I managed a running store (not a chain) in the early 80's. This was the UK so absolute height of the boom. 'Real runners' appreciated knowledgable advice but spent as little as possible - thats the runner personality: cheap. It was not unusual for a good runner to take 2 hrs of time and then leave and buy mail order. What paid the bills was the turtles and all the crap they bought. I could have employed a chimp to sell that stuff.
Don't hate running stores - FleetFeet etc. are not and never have been runners stores, any more than RW is a real runners mag. To make $ you have to branch out from running - (just ask Phil Knight) running's just too basic and there's too little to be gained by big mark-up stuff (cf, say, golf). Runners nirvana store (useful community info.,intelligent staff, only serious stuff)just does not pay in running. Never will.
Specialty running stores trade on service. I can go to my local Fleet Feet and get anything I want; if they don't stock it then they'll special order it for me. Not gonna happen at Sports Barn. Same idea with Home Depot vs. local hardware store, if you're a contractor and know exactly what you need for the job then go with the lowest cost supplier but the average shmoe might want more sage input regarding his home project than the McEmployees at HD can provide. Plus local running stores (typically) are strong supporters of the local races. Chain (and online) stores hardly ever are.
HRE wrote:
Yes, that all makes sense in a way. But you can get the 2100s at Bob's Store or a similar place for less money than it'll cost at most specialty shops. The idea used to be that the specialty shop carried specialized products that weren't available at discount stores and runners were supposed to patronize the running shop and its higher prices to keep it in business and selling specialty products. If a running shop isn't going to carry anything that you can't get at a discount store why would anyone buy from them?
Turtles, turtles, everywhere.
I just had to rant a bit.
It's like being in a gigantic mall, where the only clothing stores are Big & Tall and Lane Bryant, and even the skinny people have to wear ill-fitting, baggy clothes.
newsflash: I really like that running stores support races and the running community in general. And I have lived in cities where I really liked some of the staff, and even got some discounts, just because, I guess. I want to be able to support my local store, but special ordering shoes? I don't see myself doing that when it's easier for me to just order them myself.
Easier? I pick up the phone, call the store #, tell them my name and make and model I want. Then they call me when they get them and I pick them up the next time I happen to be going there or somewhere nearby. Not a tough process at all and I get a club discount that brings the price to near what the typical e-tailer charges before shipping.
I work at a running store and I am also a collegiate runner. Although I'm not a doctor I have a good idea about people's mechanics, overpronation, etc. My podiatrist has personally shown me the ways to identify certain problems and his methods of corretion. I humbly admit I will fit people correctly 85 percent of the time. The margin for error can be explained by the fact that feet are complex and the obervable problem may not be the primary issue. My podiatrist says it best: "Recognize the underlying problem, bring up 3 to 5 pairs of shoes, and encourage the person to run for 5 minutes. Within this time frame a runner will get an good idea whether a shoe is right for him." Unfortunately, most customers dont' listen to my "5 minute" advice... I also recommend shoes with the least amount of cushioning because they throw-off the sensory receptors in the foot, leading to biomechanical problems which lead to injury. I never sell shoes based on their margin, but attempt to give the customer the right product.
The posters on Letsrun have an array of knowledge which I use regularly to do my job well. Some of you certainly understand running shoes better than I, but my job is to impart my knowledge onto people who are beginners and veterans alike. Instead of complaining on an anonymous message board about your local running shop. Go to the store and voice some of your concerns. Call beforehand and place an order so you can try the shoe on. A pair of flats shouldn't sink a business! Bitching and moaning doesn't help anyone. Let someone equally enthusiastic about running help you!
For me, nothing is more fullfilling than seeing a happy runner a month later compliment me on the shoes I sold them.
[quote]SONICJ wrote:
Short shorts+45 year olds=scary.
quote]
Wow, I hope I don't mistakenly visit the store you work at.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs633.snc3/31772_399110276915_134320766915_4746775_4922257_n.jpg
(blue short shorts)
Hey man - my general view of the running stores in Atlanta is that Phidippides (sp?) has the most knowledgeable people working there, legit college and high placing rec runners. They also seem to keep the best supply of good "out of date" shoes. In terms of the best store to get the "latest and greatest" I would say that is Big Peach. Unfortunately, they also have the highest proportion of couch-potato runners in there at all times. Actually, I went with my wife recently to get a new pair of shoes for her and had a good conversation with the sales associate about minimalism (he was a proponent), and previously they have been pretty good to talk with. This was at the East Cobb store, which probably has the highest percentage of soccer moms who found running as a new hobby, so if you can stomach that (and all the gadgets they also sell), you should like it okay.
Things have changed considerably at all of these stores over the years. I used to love going to running stores b/c you could "talk shop" with the staff, it was usually empty, and you could take your time. Now it has become almost "cool" for people to say they go to these places, to get their gait analysis, and be educated by the staff. Although I think the heightened attention to the sport is good and nice, it also makes me want to leave the store as quickly as possible. It's sort of like when your favorite band became popular...you spent a lot of time wishing they would be noticed or get the attention you thought they deserved, but then once the idiot-majority started talking about how awesome they are and going to their concerts, you got kind of bummed out. It's especially painful this time of year here in ATL with the Peachtree.
I was hoping somebody would bring this up. If the local running stores go, watch the quality and quantity of local road races plummet.
To the individual referencing commission, speaking for myself, I work at one of three local running specialty stores and have friends at the other two, and none of us work on commission. It's not like cars, we just get an hourly wage. I couldn't tell you the markup from a flat from a specific trainer to a pair of socks (though I know that there are differences).
Overall, I think specialty stores ARE geared more towards people who are getting into running and looking for good information, but I also think that they support the running community as a whole via race sponsorship and other acts.
Another example of what's wrong:
About 1 year ago, I went to "Marathon Sports at the Finish Line" on Boylston in Boston, MA.
I asked about Lightweight training shoes for my size (14). They said they don't carry that. I asked them if they could order for me (I think it was the Asics DS Trainer). Answer: yes, we can order but then you'll be obligated to buy.
I left the store and never came back. Ordered at runningwarehouse and never looked back.
Nutella1 wrote:
Another example of what's wrong:
About 1 year ago, I went to "Marathon Sports at the Finish Line" on Boylston in Boston, MA.
I asked about Lightweight training shoes for my size (14). They said they don't carry that. I asked them if they could order for me (I think it was the Asics DS Trainer). Answer: yes, we can order but then you'll be obligated to buy.
I left the store and never came back. Ordered at runningwarehouse and never looked back.
What's the problem with you being obligated to buy the shoe they order specifically for you?
Nutella1 wrote:
Answer: yes, we can order but then you'll be obligated to buy.
I left the store and never came back.
You wanted them to special order a product for you that they don't normally carry and pay for shipping and you weren't sure that you wanted them?
If you then decided that you weren't going to buy YOUR special order, what should they do with YOUR shoe?
If they sent them back they would then have to pay shipping twice, plus a restocking fee to Asics.
It sounds like you leaving and never coming back has saved them a great deal of cash. Their policy allowed them to dodge a bullet.
I'd suggest ordering a bunch from runningwarehouse.com because you get fre shipping and can return them free of charge no shipping. The website also has great pics of the shoes with a 360 view so you can get as great of a view of the shoe as you can from a website. Not to mention runningwarehouse has product vids and "sneak peaks" of the next stuff coming out. And their selection is very very good, for example they carry brooks launch and brooks t6 racers and some other shoes I love.
As for running stores, I give kudos to Marathon Sports locations in the Boston area. They have some great staff who are nice/great people, always real runners themselves and also some NCAA runners or former NCAA runners and best and most important of all I haven't found them to be arrogant but just helpful when you need it. Also, unlike other runningstores I've been to if you just want to look around yourself at the different shoes they carry they leave you alone without swarming you too quickly. Again I'm not sure about this gait analysis stuff, if a shoe FITS IT FITS!!! Arthur Lydiard says in his book Running To the Top that pretty much everyone is neutral when running barefoot and the best running shoe for you is some simple flexible rubber slab underneath.
Another running store I went to I wasn't as impressed at all. the salesman there swarmed me immediately as I entered the store, looked at the shoes I was wearing casually, and tried to suggest a shoe of the same brand to me based on this. Also, their shoe selection at this other running store was terrible - they only had brooks shoes in the stability category and few neutral running shoes. Also they had very few racing/xc flats.
At any running store the technical running clothing and stuff is going to be pretty expensive. Every once in awhile you can get something to grab but whatever I mean if you need running clothing immediately that day, want to try it on, and don't want to order it and wait for it off runningwarehouse.com, its not too bad.
I noticed from runningwarehouse.com and all other merchants that like all Nike drifit tees at any merchant is like 40plus dollars MSRP so I look at Brooks and New Balance technical tees and stuff with the runningwarehouse discount is incredibly cheap. The Nike stuff is even as cheap as you can get it with the discount at runningwarehouse.com. Kudos to runningwarehouse.com - they are the best place period and other running stores' worst nightmare!!! :)
