150+MPW

Arthur recommended not counting miles, but target time for the very reasons you mention.

I agree with this, too. I used a HRM and did two ninety minute runs/day - most days. When I was at my best, this meant about 40 k/day. Coming off a lay-off it might mean 25k. The amount of work I was doing remained constant, though. I usually progressed pretty rapidly doing this.

Hmmmm. When one becomes aged and halt I can see where 'one-hour run' looks better in the training log than 'sore, plodding 10k'.

Comet to think of it, if A. Lydiard's Boys were running 100MPW @ 6-minute-mile pace, that works out to 600-minutes

or 10-hours of running per week.

(the light dawns)

A rookie running, say 7:30-per-mile, would be out there for 12.5-hours weekly. I wonder if Lydiard had presumed people KNEW his guys had gone through a few full cycles of his program and were at their zenith when training at

6-flat or sub-6 clip.

I started out (circa 1968) reading Coopers "Aerobics" book and thought that you needed to break that 6:25-per-mile pace for a mile before you could even CONSIDER moving up in mileage.

Caught a lot of bronchitis and flu in JHS and HS running the red zone without much base. I thought it was SUPPOSED to be painful. I wasn't very talented and 7-flat was always challenging for me.

You live, you learn. Sometimes.

xRUNx wrote:

You ran 5:40 pace average throughout each run? You are fit.

Yes. Was fit. In months following I fell 3s short of the 15k AR, tied the 10mile AR, and set the 12k AR.

Do you still have any logs of those high mileage weeks before you burnt up the roads malmo? How much were you sleeping during that time?

Awesome stuff!

There is no upper limit on mileage, but you may find recovery becomes more difficult. I would run a set number of hours instead of mileage. As you get faster, you will still maintain the stimulus as you improve.

Out.

My 2nd question was in regards to the becoming a sleeping machine part in one of your earlier posts on this thread.

malmo wrote:

I've run in the 150-180 range a few times and 5:40 pace was quite comfortable. The problem is a fueling issue. You become a running/eating/sleeping machine at those levels.

high mileage, (100-120 mpw) in the aug-dec build up for track (while running x-c) worked for me. had huge prs in everything from the 880 to the 3 mile and fell a couple of seconds short of breaking 4 minutes in the mile. staying healthy is the problem. (stress fractures, plantar fascitis, torn knee cartlige from stepping into a slight grass covered hole on a golf course, etc.

lowes wrote:

Do you still have any logs of those high mileage weeks before you burnt up the roads malmo? How much were you sleeping during that time?

Awesome stuff!

summer of malmo '82

June 27 - July 3-1982 Week = 116.5

6/27 S - PM 17.5 moderate over hilly course

6/28 M - AM 4.5 moderate PM 12 moderate

6/29 T - AM 7 slow PM 4 very slow (very humid can't breathe)

6/30 W - AM 6 easy PM 10 moderate

7/01 T - AM 5 easy PM 3 warmup, 3x 1 mile w/ 400 jog( 4:34,4:33,4:30) 4x400 (61,61,61,59) 4 warmdown

7/02 F - AM 8.5 moderate PM 3.5 warmup, 10 x heartbreak hill (1:39, last one 1:33), 3.5 warmdown

7/03 S - PM 16 moderate

-------------------------------------

July 4 - July 10 Week = 69

7/4 S - AM 14 slow feel very ill

7/5 M - Flu

7/6 T - Flu PM 8.5 slow

7/7 W - Flu PM 11.5 slow

7/8 T - Flu PM 10 slow

7/9 F - Flu PM 9.5 easy

7/10 S - AM 4 moderate PM 3 warmup, 8x400 (62.1) w/200 jog, 3 warmdown

---------------------------------------

July 11 - July 17 Week = 124

7/11 S - PM 20 moderate

7/12 M - AM 9 moderate PM 13.5 fartlek (10 min easy, 10 min hard)

7/13 T - AM 4 moderate-hard PM 3 warmup, 6x800 (2:10,2:10,2:10,2:10,2:10,2:06) w 400 jog, 4 warmdown

7/14 W - AM 10 easy PM 17 moderate (last 5 hard)

7/15 T - AM 4 easy PM 10.5 easy

7/16 F - PM 13.5 easy

7/17 S - AM 4 slow PM 6.5 slow

----------------------------------------

July 18 - July 24 Week = 128

7/18 S - Brownsville 5 miler, 2 warmup, 5 mile race in 24:12(1st), 5 warmdown

7/19 M - AM 15 easy PM 8.5 easy

7/20 T - PM 17 easy

7/21 W - AM 10 moderate AM 11 fartlek (5:00 hard, 5:00 easy)

7/22 T - AM 8 easy PM 4 warmup, 12x200 (28-28.5) w 200 jog, 3 warmdown

7/23 F - AM 4 easy PM 14 moderate

7/24 S - AM 18.5 moderate

--------------------------------------

July 25 - July 31 Week = 133

7/25 S - AM 8 slow PM 5 slow

7/26 M - PM Nike Holliston 5.2 mile, 2.5 warmup, 5.2 mile race in 25:26 (4th), 6.5 warmdown

7/27 T - AM 8.5 moderate PM 4 warmup, 2x200(28.5), 2x300(45.2,45.2), 1x400(59.1), 2x300(45.2,44.3), 2x200(28.5), 2 warmdown

7/28 W - AM 9.5 moderate PM 14.5 moderate

7/29 T - AM 9.5 moderate PM 4 warmup, 10x400(61.3) w/200 jog, 4 warmdown

7/30 F - AM 9 moderate PM 11 moderate

7/31 S - AM 11 moderate PM 12.5 moderate

-------------------------------------

August 1 - August 7 Week = 111 miles

8/1 S - PM 3 warmup, 2 miles in 8:53.1 (in NB 990s), 1.5 warmdown

8/2 M - AM 10 moderate PM 11 hard (1:01:30)

8/3 T - AM 4 easy PM 3 warmup, 300(44.1), 2x800(2:00.4,1:59.8), 400(57.1), 300(42.0), 4 warmdown

8/4 W - AM 11 easy PM 11 easy

8/5 T - AM 8.5 easy PM 10 moderate

8/6 F - PM 14.5 moderate

8/7 S - AM 6 slow PM 5 easy

-------------------------------------

August 8 - August 14 Week = 93 miles

8/8 S - AM 2 easy PM Riverside 5 mile, 3 warmup, 5 mile race in 23:11 (4th), 5 mile warmdown

8/9 M - PM Sore throat/fever 13 moderate

8/10 T - AM Sore throat/fever 4 moderate PM 6 easy

8/11 W - AM 4 easy PM 14 easy

8/12 T - AM 8.5 easy PM 8.5 easy

8/13 F - AM 4 easy PM 6 easy

8/14 S - Am 4 easy PM 6 easy

------------------------------------

August 15 - August 21 Week = 142 miles

8/15 S - AM Falmouth Road Race 3 warmup, 7.1 mile race in 33:10 (8th), 4 warmdown

8/16 M - AM 10 moderate PM 10 moderate

8/17 T - AM 10 moderate PM 13 easy

8/18 W - AM 4 moderate PM 4 warmup, 1200(3:17), 4x800(2:09,2:09,2:09.2:07), 1200(3:12), 4 warmdown

8/19 T - AM 10 moderate PM 12.5 moderate

8/20 F - AM 8.5 moderate PM 3.5 warmup, 8 x Chestnet Hill (2:00,2:00,2:00,2:01,2:04,2:02,2:02,2:00)

8/21 S - AM 13 moderate PM 10 moderate

-------------------------------------

August 22 - August 28 Week = 141 miles

8/22 S - PM 21 miles moderate

8/23 M - AM 10.5 moderate-fast PM 4 warmup, 3x400-400-800 (62,62,2:07.1,60.4,61.1,2:07.0,60.1,60.1,2:08.4) w/200-200-400 jog, 4 warmdown

8/24 T - PM 20 moderate

8/25 W - AM 11 moderate PM 11.5 moderate-fast

8/26 T - AM 12 hard PM 11 moderate

8/27 F - AM 6 moderate PM 8.5 easy legs are shot!

8/28 S - PM 17 easy

----------------------------------------

August 29 - September 4 Week = 103 miles

8/29 S - PM 4 warmup, 10 x Chestnut Hill (69-71), 5 warmdown

8/30 M - AM 4 easy PM 11 slow

8/31 T - AM 4 easy PM 4 warmup, 8x800(2:10) w/400jog, 4 easy

9/1 W - PM 13 moderate

9/2 T - AM 4 easy PM 4 warmup, 1 mile (4:16.1),8x200(27.7) w/ 200 jog, 4 warmdown

9/3 F - AM 4 easy PM 12 easy

9/4 S - AM 4 easy PM 9 easy

----------------------------------------

September 5 - September 11 Week = 128 miles

9/5 S -AM 7 slow PM 4 slow

9/6 M -AM New Haven 20k, 3 warmup, 20k race in 59:42(3rd), 4 warmdown

9/7 T -PM 15 easy

9/8 W -AM 10 easy PM 11 easy

9/9 T -AM 7 easy PM 4 warmup, 4 x1200(3:19,3:16,3:15,3:09) very easy! w/ 400 jog, 4 warmdown

9/10 F - PM 22 easy

9/11 S - AM 9 easy PM 11 moderate

-----------------------------------------

September 12 - September 18 Week = 102 miles

9/12 S - PM 3.5 warmup, 8 x heartbreak hill (1:36,1:35,1:35,1:35,1:35,1:35,1:37,1:36), 3.5 easy

9/13 M - AM 4 hard (21:14) PM 10 moderate (59:30)

9/14 T - AM 4 easy PM 12.5 moderate

9/15 W - AM 7 easy PM 4 warmup, 2 x 1mile (4:16.4,4:15.8) w 2:30 jog, 4 warmdown

9/16 T - AM 8.5 moderate PM 12 easy

9/17 F - AM 4.5 easy PM 10.5 easy

9/18 S - PM 6 slow, very humid, can't breathe!

--------------------------------------------

September 19 - September 25 Week = 108 miles

9/19 S - AM Philly Distance Run, 2.5 warmup, 13.1 race in 1:01:43(AR 2nd) Winner Mike Musioki 1:01:35(WR), 2.5 warmdown

9/20 M - PM 17.5 easy

9/21 T - AM 9.5 easy PM 13 easy

9/22 W - PM 8.5 easy

9/23 T - AM 5.5 easy PM 7.5 easy

9/24 F - AM 7 slow PM 4 slow

9/25 S - AM Virginia Ten Mile 2 warmup, 10 mile race in 48:35(6th), 5 warmdown

---------------------------------------------

September 26 - October 2 Week = 94 miles

9/26 S - PM 11 easy

9/27 M - PM 12 moderate

9/28 T - AM 4 hard (22:40) PM 4 warmup, 10x400(59,59,61,59,61,60,61,60,60,59) w/200jog, 4 warmdown

9/29 W - AM 10 easy PM 9.5 slow

9/30 T - AM 4 easy PM 9 moderate

10/1 F - AM 5 easy PM 8.5 easy

10/2 S - AM 4 easy PM 5 easy

-----------------------------------------

October 3 - October 9 Week = 120 miles

10/3 S - AM Freedom Trail, 3 warmup, 8 mile race in 37:17 (1st...4:33,9:06,13:40,no mercy...) 4 warmdown

10/4 M - PM 18 easy

10/5 T - AM 6.5 easy PM 13 miles fartlek (10:00 hard, 10:00 easy)

10/6 W - AM 5.5 hard PM 14 moderate

10/7 T - AM 5.5 moderate-hard PM 14.5 moderate

10/8 F - AM 9 moderate PM 12.5 moderate

10/9 S - AM 7 easy

----------------------------------------

October 10 - October 16 Week = 134 miles

10/10 S - PM 30 moderate (3:03:00)

10/11 M - PM 12.5 miles fartlek (5:00 hard, 5:00 easy)

10/12 T - AM 10 easy PM 10 easy

10/13 W - AM 7.5 moderate PM 12 moderate

10/14 T - AM 5.5 moderate-hard PM 3 warmup,2 mile (8:55.5),800(2:09.7),4x400(62.7,62.3,60.8,59.7),6.5 warmdown

10/15 F - AM 10 slow PM 6.5 easy

10/16 S - AM University City Ten Miler, 2 warmup, 10 mile race in 49:02(1st), 4 warmdown

---------------------------------------

October 17 - October 23 Week = 79 miles

10/17 S - PM 11.5 easy

10/18 M - AM 5.5 slow PM 9 easy

10/19 T - PM 4 warmup, 12x400(64,64,64,64,64,64,64,64,62,61,60,60), 5.5 warmdown

10/20 W - AM 9 easy PM 6.5 easy

10/21 T - AM 7 slow PM 9.5 slow

10/22 F - PM 7 easy

10/23 S - rest

---------------------------------------

October 24 - October 30 Week = 27 miles

10/24 S - AM NYC Marathon, 1 warmup, marathon in 2:13:29(7th)

Thanks Hodgie-san for posting those logs

You are excellent, Hodge! Any word on when BR's 76 logs will be up?

lowes wrote:

Thanks Hodgie-san for posting those logs

lowes, I think this what you were looking for. Note: anywhere you see "moderate" or "hard", especially in the evening, probably has some sort of tempo run in it, usually 4-5 miles, but many times only 2-3 miles. Sometimes they were 8-12 miles but those usually happened during a run of about 13-20 miles. Those were progression type runs, starting at 6:00 then working down to 5:20s before finally dropping into the zone. Also, tempo runs could have happened on "easy" runs, as well, but those would typically be 2-3 mile "run-to-the-barns".

1980

8/16 52 Sciatica

8/23 0 Sciatica

8/30 0 Sciatica

9/6 0 Sciatica

9/13 0 Sciatica

9/20 0 Sciatica

9/27 0

10/4 42

10/11 55

10/18 98

10/25 80

11/1 101

11/8 89

11/15 124

11/22 137

11/29 157

12/6 168

12/13 177

12/20 151 (included 1.5 days off due to flu)

12/27 113

1/3 83

1/10 84

9/28 – 10/4 1980 42 miles

9/28 AM 4 easy PM 5 easy

9/29 AM 4 easy PM 4 easy

9/30 PM 7 miles easy

11/1 0

11/2 AM 6 easy PM 4 easy

11/3 0

11/4 AM 8 easy

-------------------

10/5 – 10/11 55 miles

10/5 0

10/6 AM 6 easy PM 8 easy

10/7 PM 6 easy

10/8 PM 8 easy

10/9 AM 4 easy PM 8 easy

10/10 PM 6 easy

10/11 AM 9 easy

---------------------

10/12 – 10/18 97 miles

10/12 AM 10 easy PM 8.5 easy

10/13 AM 8.5 easy PM 10.5 easy

10/14 0

10/15 AM 10.5 easy PM 9.5 easy

10/16 AM 11 easy PM 11 easy

10/17 PM 9 easy

10//18 PM 9 easy

---------------------

10/19 – 10/25 80 miles

10/19 PM 6 easy

10/20 PM 16 moderate

10/21 PM 11 moderate

10/22 PM 6.5 easy

10/23 AM 12.5 easy PM 11 easy

10/24 PM 8 easy

10/25 PM 9 easy

--------------------

10/26 – 11/1 101 miles

10/26 0

10/27 AM 6 easy PM 10.5 easy

10/28 AM 9.5 easy PM 11 easy

10/29 PM 16 moderate

10/30 AM 11.5 moderate PM 8.5 moderate

10/31 PM 16 easy

11/1 PM 12 easy

--------------------

11/2 – 11/8 89 miles

11/2 PM 7 easy

11/3 PM 10.5 easy

11/4 PM 19 slow

11/5 PM 10.5 easy

11/6 PM 14 moderate

11/7 AM 11 easy PM 10.5 easy

11/8 PM 6.5 easy

--------------------

11/9 – 11/15 124 miles

11/9 AM 11 easy

11/10 AM 8.5 easy PM 11.5 moderate

11/11 AM 6.5 easy PM 16 easy

11/12 PM 12 easy

11/13 AM 10.5 moderate PM 12.5 easy

11/14 PM 19 moderate

11/15 PM 16.5 easy

------------------------

11/16 – 11/22 137 miles

11/16 AM 10.5 easy PM 4 miles easy; 12 x 400 (67) w/200 jog, 3miles easy

11/17 AM 9 moderate PM 13 easy

11/18 PM 12.5 slow

11/19 PM 6 easy PM 13.5 moderate

11/20 PM 19 moderate

11/21 AM 7 easy PM 4 miles easy, 24 x 200 (31.7)w/200 jog, 3 easy warmdown

11/22 AM 10.5 easy PM 11.5 moderate

----------------------------------------------

11/23 – 11/29 157 miles

11/23 AM 9 moderate PM 14 easy

11/24 AM 11.5 easy PM 11.5 moderate

11/25 AM 10.5 moderate PM 11.5 hard

11/26 PM 19 moderate

11/27 AM 14 easy PM 10.5 easy

11/28 AM 11.5 easy PM 11 moderate

11/29 AM 11.5 easy PM 11.5 easy

----------------------------------------

11/30 – 12/6 168 miles

11/30 PM 22 moderate

12/1 AM 4 miles easy, 16 x 300 (47.5)w/200jog, 3.5 easy warmdown PM 11.5 easy

12/2 AM 11.5 moderate PM 12.5 moderate

12/3 AM 11.5 easy PM 13 moderate

12/4 AM 11 moderate PM 13.5 moderate

12/5 AM 11 moderate PM 14 hard

12/6 AM 10.5 easy PM 4 miles easy, 12 x 600 (1:39) w/200 jog, 3.5 easy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/7 – 12/13 177 miles

12/7 PM 25.5 moderate (2:27)

12/8 AM 12 easy PM 14 moderate-hard

12/9 AM 12 moderate PM 14 moderate

12/10 AM 10.5 easy PM 4 miles easy, 24 x 200 (29.8) w/200 jog, 4 miles easy

12/11 AM 13 moderate PM 13 moderate

12/12 AM 11.5 moderate PM 13.5 moderate

12/13 AM 12.5 moderate PM 11.5 moderate-hard

------------------------------------------------------------

12/14 – 12/20 151 miles

12/14 AM 12 moderate PM 3.5 easy, 10x800 (2:16) w 400 jog, 4 miles easy

12/15 AM 12.5 easy PM 15 easy

12/16 FLU 0

12/17 FLU PM 16.5 moderate

12/18 AM 12.5 easy PM 14.5 easy

12/19 AM 13 moderate PM 14 moderate

12/20 AM 12.5 easy PM 13.5 easy

------------------------------------

12/21 – 12/27 113 miles

12/21 PM Burke Lake 2 miles easy, 7 miles fartlek with C Virgin, 2 miles easy

12/22 AM 8.5 moderate PM 11.5 moderate-hard

12/23 AM 9.5 slow PM 9.5 moderate w/ 2 x 5:00 surges and one hard hill (6:00)

12/24 AM 4 moderate PM 13 moderate w/ 40:00 fartlek in middle

12/25 PM 21 moderate

12/26 AM 8.5 slow PM 10.5 moderate

12/27 AM 6 moderate

--------------------------

12/28 – 1/3/1981 83 miles

12/28 PM 3 miles easy, 8 x Auburn St Hill (2:19 up big side + short sprint up backside) 3 easy warmdown

12/29 AM 8.5 easy PM 10.5 moderate

12/30 AM 6 easy PM 9 easy

12/31 PM 7 easy

1/3 AM Runners World 15k, Stanford. 1 easy warmup, 15k race 43:43 (3rd), 3 miles easy warmdown

1/2 AM 5 easy PM 8 easy

1/3 AM 4 easy PM moderate

-----------------------------------

1/4 - 1/10 84 miles

1/4 AM Runners World 2 miles easy, 5 miles race 23:03 (15th) 3 miles warmdown

1/5 AM 9 easy PM 9 easy

1/6 AM 8 moderate PM 9 moderate

1/7 AM 5 easy PM 1 easy, 6 x 1 mile w/ 400 jog, 1.5 easy

1/8 AM 4 easy PM 6 easy

1/9 AM 4 easy PM 4 easy

1/10 PM 6 easy

--------------------

Link wrote:

You are excellent, Hodge! Any word on when BR's 76 logs will be up?

I have lost a bit of steam on that project but hopefully we can get Bill to do some more of his logs.

Anyone save the photo that was posted on here a while back that had BR in Montreal at OG selling his uniform?

Quite a classic that I wish I had saved.

Hey Malmo,

Just curious: When you were running this much- were you running alone most of the time? Also, were you working fulltime, partime or what?

I'm impressed with the sheer volume of the moderate runs, making me realize I definitely need some more of those. Also about to start work 50 hours a week pretty soon and trying to decide when and how i'll do my training

Malmo, thanks for posting those.

That period of training was what I was referring to but Hodgie-San's post of logs was helpful too.

It seems in those bigger mileage weeks that runs of 10-12.5 miles were your "snacks" (like you have used that term before) as they occur frequently in your big weeks.

Its no suprise that you ran quite well not long after that solid block of training.

dmizzle wrote:

Just curious: When you were running this much- were you running alone most of the time? Also, were you working fulltime, partime or what?

Of course I was running alone. Do you know anyone who could keep up with that schedule? I don't.

I was running full-time during that training block. I've also had a similar block (not as much, topping at 167) while working 50hr weeks.

malmo:

1/ How many years did it take you to be able to handle that sort of training volume?

2/ What was your diet like? Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner/Snacks?

3/ Did you drink a lot of beer like Dave Bedford?

malmo wrote:

I was running full-time during that training block. I've also had a similar block (not as much, topping at 167) while working 50hr weeks.

Ok, now that's impressive, if not obsessive. Must've felt like a million bucks each and every morning getting out of bed.

Sagarin wrote:

Ok, now that's impressive, if not obsessive. Must've felt like a million bucks each and every morning getting out of bed.

It was no different than in high school getting up at 5:30 to run 8 miles. The alarm goes off, you get up and run.