The truth hurts wrote:
Think back to how he could not defend Dominique at all.
That was one game, Wilkins' best ever, and Bird schooled him in the 4th quarter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxqKLEMTBo4The truth hurts wrote:
Think back to how he could not defend Dominique at all.
That was one game, Wilkins' best ever, and Bird schooled him in the 4th quarter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxqKLEMTBo4Wendell Gee wrote:
If you think Bird would have won all those rings with Dominique's teammates, you're delusional. How many HOF'ers on Bird's team?
Delusional, eh? The year before Bird came, the Celtics were 29-53. The very next year the were 61 and 21. They didn't have Kevin McHale, or Robert Parish or Danny Ainge or Henderson or Dennis Johnson or Bill Walton. Just added Bird. The year after that, they were NBA champs.
Unlike Dominique, Bird also made the people around him better.
Dismissing Bird as "the Great White Hype" is silly and most likely racist. I'd also like to know how his stats could possibly have been as "inflated" as is claimed. His shooting was as accurate and clutch as it was, and his rebounds were rebounds.
I get the fact that many White stars of earlier NBA eras couldn't play today. Bird's not one of those.
How in the world do you think he became a career 10.0 RPG for almost 900 games - with HOF teammates (one being a center)?
Game on the line, Bird basically blows by Nique:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxqKLEMTBo4
(go to 6:25)
Doc Rivers (for the then Hawks) on Bird's 60pt job on the Hawks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFhNi9t4L4&feature=related
Honestly, the OP just made me laugh. Either they were born after 1985 or they're just plain retarded.
Note: I was a huge Lakers fan in the 80's.
I was ALWAYS a Bird hater, couldn't stand him on ANY level. I'm a Big 10 guy so I rooted for MSU in the 79' final and thought Bird was overrated. My favorite NBA player when Bird came into the leaague was Dr. J, hence the 76'ers were my team. They went head to head (including the famous "fight" b/w the two) often with the Celtics getting the upper hand most of the time, I made every excuse in the book..."bird is overrated"..."bird is lucky"..."the officials were in the Celts pocket"...My 2nd favorite team was the Lakers (following Magic). I can go on, but my point is I hated the f*cker. I even agreed with Isiah (who I liked) about Bird being overrated b/c he was white (and I'm white). Ok, there are my credentials. Now to answer your question:
Are you f*cking kidding me? What kind of idiot are you? He would start and be the best player on about 26 NBA teams. He's one of the best 10 or 15 B-ball players EVER...And I still can't stand the f*cker.
Wendell Gee wrote:
amxncx wrote:Ah, the thoughts of a 14 year old.
How many rings does Dominique have?
If you think Bird would have won all those rings with Dominique's teammates, you're delusional. How many HOF'ers on Bird's team?
You could put 5 HOF guys on Dominique's and he wouldn't win.
He gave up as much as he scored and did nothing to make his team mates better. He was an awful passer.
But he looked really good while he was scoring 25 and giving up 30, and I guess that's what matters to you.
The truth hurts wrote:
A mostly white running forum is not the place for this discusion. Bird was the great white hype and the white fans needed someone to keep their interest and make them still feel attached to the game. There have been so few quality white players in the league over the past 2o years that the white fans still consider Bird their basketball god. As such he was the most overrated player of all time with overinflated stats. He would not have been the best player on any team today, but he may have been a starter on most teams because he could shoot better than most players today. However, I'm not sure he would be a starter on this Celtics team which is very defensively minded, because he would have struggled to defend most forwards in the game today. Think back to how he could not defend Dominique at all.
Sometimes you just gotta say stupid things in order to keep the conversation flowing. Fine work.
Bird could actually SHOOT THE BALL. He'd dominate. Plus he'd have the added bonus of having better trainers, fitness, etc. He'd obliterate most of the chumps in the watered down NBA today.
Wendell Gee wrote:
The year after that (when they added McHale and Parish), they were NBA champs.
Like I said ...
You know how many extra regular season wins McHale and Parish brought them? Three. That's right. Three.
Meanwhile, the year before Dominique came to Atlanta, the Hawks were 31 and 51. The next year they were (gasp!) 42 and 40. Then 43 and 39! Then 40-42
Like I said. Bird made his whole team better. That's why you know about names like McHale and Parish and why nobody remembers names like Roundfield or Eddie Johnson***. It's why Dominique played for 5 teams in his career and Bird played for one
***They played with Dominique, by the way.
24/10/6.3.
Bird was A GOD. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9qRNB4uZGU&feature=related
IN YOUR FACE JORDAN! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGmMx8Ejrw&feature=related
The truth hurts wrote:
A mostly white running forum is not the place for this discusion. Bird was the great white hype and the white fans needed someone to keep their interest and make them still feel attached to the game. There have been so few quality white players in the league over the past 2o years that the white fans still consider Bird their basketball god. As such he was the most overrated player of all time with overinflated stats. He would not have been the best player on any team today, but he may have been a starter on most teams because he could shoot better than most players today. However, I'm not sure he would be a starter on this Celtics team which is very defensively minded, because he would have struggled to defend most forwards in the game today. Think back to how he could not defend Dominique at all.
Ok, Nat Turner.
Average_Joe wrote:
There was a fantastic article in ESPN magazine a few years back by Simpson.
...Bill Simmons?
malmo wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU
At about 1:50 in that video he makes a pass that would make every single person in the NBA look stupid
Actaully Bird was not so unathletic. He was not fluid, but he was an average NBA athlete. His skills were otherworldy.
Funny thing is, in todays NBA he would probably be even better (statistically), because you cant touch an offensive player anymore without fouling and the kick out and pick and role are tailor made for his game. Yes, he would start on the 2010 Celtics team and be the best shooting forward in the NBA.
Doesn't take much athleticism to sit back and nail 20-25foot jumpers all day.
No one can hit the J these days.
Alan
Did you mean.... wrote:
...Bill Simmons?
Yes that's it. Sorry my mistake. I cut the thing out and put it on my fridge. I still re-read it from time to time. If anyone can find it online, I'd appreciate it. I had no luck.
I don't want to answer the question directly, but would like to provide some stats to give a proper perspective of where I'm coming from with this.
Linked are season stats from 1985-86:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986.html
and 2009-10:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html
.
A couple of comparisons - League wide average scores: '85-86: 110.2 points per game, '09-10: 100.4 point per game.
Free throw percentage - '85-86: 75.6, '09-10: 75.9.
Field goal percentage - '85-86: 48.7, '09-10: 46.1.
So what should one make of this? What I make of it (for what it's worth) is that the players of today certainly appear to be able to shoot as well as those from 20-30 years ago as evidenced by the free throw percentage being essentially equal, but the difference is that there are fewer offensive possessions now and teams shoot far more three pointers than they used to. (I haven't included this information, but it is available in the links.)
Why is this? Obviously it can't be answered definitively, but I just feel that players these days have far fewer open shots than the players of 20-30 years ago did and that is partially because players are more athletic and quicker on average than they were back in those days. This happens in just about all sports and is a reason that people caution against comparing across generations all the time.
So could Larry Bird start for this year's Celtics team? Maybe, probably, definitely, I don't know, but I just hate how people consistently make these claims about how great the players as a whole were back in the '80s. I think the players of today match up well enough.
Wendell Gee wrote:
The fact is, the three great teams of the '80's were loaded with amazing players. As great as Magic, Bird and Dr. J were, none were playing with inferior teammates.
In that case, let's just say while he might not have won all the championships he did, he certainly would have won more than Dominique