Thanks Zat0pek for the info, very interesting.
Thanks Zat0pek for the info, very interesting.
malmo wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:A lot of our 10k runners in the past were marathoners moving down...
What? Name them?
in the progression, Buddy Edelen, Frank Shorter, Alberto Salazar were marathoners and Meb would become one, but maybe he hadn't yet run one.
29:58.9 Bud Edelen, Olympic Club Sunnyvale, California, May 6, 1960
27:58.2 Frank Shorter, Florida TC, Munich, August 31, 1972
27:51.4 Frank Shorter, Florida TC, Munich, September 3, 1972
27:25.61 Alberto Salazar, Athletics West, Oslo, June 26, 1982
27:13.98 Meb Keflezighi, Nike, Palo Alto, California, May 4, 2001
jjjjjjjjjjjjjj wrote:
malmo wrote:What? Name them?
in the progression, Buddy Edelen, Frank Shorter, Alberto Salazar were marathoners and Meb would become one, but maybe he hadn't yet run one.
29:58.9 Bud Edelen, Olympic Club Sunnyvale, California, May 6, 1960
27:58.2 Frank Shorter, Florida TC, Munich, August 31, 1972
27:51.4 Frank Shorter, Florida TC, Munich, September 3, 1972
27:25.61 Alberto Salazar, Athletics West, Oslo, June 26, 1982
27:13.98 Meb Keflezighi, Nike, Palo Alto, California, May 4, 2001
Both Shorter and Salazar were track runners who had success at the marathon. Labelling them as marathoners is borderline idiotic for anyone who is aware of the history of either.
Ess Gee Ess wrote:
Both Shorter and Salazar were track runners who had success at the marathon. Labelling them as marathoners is borderline idiotic for anyone who is aware of the history of either.
So was Keflezighi.
The only marathoner dropping to 10k I can think of is Bill Rodgers at the 76 Olympic Trials.
Frank Shorter did not complete his first marathon until until Sunday, June 6, 1971. He was 2nd to Kenny Moore in the US Championship/Pan Am Trials in Eugene in 2:17.44. I think I remember that Shorter had run a two or three mile race in San Francisco two nights before. Those competing in the twilight nite that evening in Eugene were Mac Wilkins, both Kvalheims, Jim Ryun and Steve Prefontaine.
The U.S. has now nearly caught up to the 1993 standard of Yobes Ondieki, 26:58.38. Although this is a joyous and very happy landmark occasion, we need to realize that we're still lingering 17 years behind Ondieki and Richard Chelimo (27:07.91) in the 10,000.
Zat0pek wrote:
1 AR in the 00s, a drop of 6.58 seconds from the previous AR set 15 years earlier.
We're in a new decade buddy.
Should be 0 ARs in 90s AND 00s
1 AR in 10s
SocalxcRunner wrote:
We're in a new decade buddy.
Should be 0 ARs in 90s AND 00s
1 AR in 10s
No. Meb set the 1 AR in the 00s
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
The U.S. has now nearly caught up to the 1993 standard of Yobes Ondieki....etc... Well, on the brighter side of things, Chris has not only the American record but the North American record since Arturo Barrios ran 27:08.23 in 1989. And might as well give him the "runners of European descent" nod too since António Pinto was only good for 27:12.47 back in '99.
malmo wrote:
Runningart2004 wrote:A lot of our 10k runners in the past were marathoners moving down...
What? Name them?
I'm just remembering lots of guys filling out the USATF fields as being marathoners or road racers vs track men. Granted my memory is mostly from the 90s...I could way off base.
I guess you could say that EVERYONE eventually moves up to the marathon, but I remember a lot of these guys more for their marathoning than the track accolades:
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/rankings/men/10000usranking.pdfThe fastest? Almost always track men that stayed track men.
Alan
I could be wrong but didn't Shorter run Fukuoka 5 times, Pan American several, 2 olympics, not sure about others but he did get on the roads for half marathons and other distances.
gwalkerruns wrote:
I could be wrong but didn't Shorter run Fukuoka 5 times, Pan American several, 2 olympics, not sure about others but he did get on the roads for half marathons and other distances.
That's correct, but what's your point? He was a track runner who added the marathon, not the other way around.
malmo wrote:That's correct, but what's your point? He was a track runner who added the marathon, not the other way around.
Ditto Salazar, Virgin, Nenow and Meb. Actually, since the AR went below 28:00, the lone exception to the 10,000 AR holder eventually moving up to the marathon is Prefontaine, and he died at the height of his track prowess (and it's too soon to know about Solinsky).
But all of those guys had considerable 10,000 success before or right at the same time as their marathon success. None of them was a marathon first and then moved down to the 10,000.
I could see Hall being somewhat an exception to that pattern (even though he did dabble in a couple of 10s briefly when moving up to the marathon) if he'd ever decided to take the 10,000 seriously as a primary event for a year or two.
Runningart2004 wrote:
I'm just remembering lots of guys filling out the USATF fields as being marathoners or road racers vs track men. Granted my memory is mostly from the 90s...I could way off base.
Yes you are way off.
Runningart2004 wrote:
The fastest? Almost always track men that stayed track men.
Alan
No. Almost all of our fastest 10k runners eventually ran the marathon.
I've never seen you misfire so badly Alan.
malmo wrote:
No. Almost all of our fastest 10k runners eventually ran the marathon.
I've never seen you misfire so badly Alan.
You can even add Billy Mills to that list.
Many people are unaware of the fact that, after his stunning 10,000 gold in '64, both Clarke and Mills ran the Olympic marathon.
Mills was 14th, Clarke was 9th (I think).
Runningart2004 wrote:
I could way off base.
You are.
gwalkerruns wrote:
I could be wrong but didn't Shorter run Fukuoka 5 times, Pan American several, 2 olympics, not sure about others but he did get on the roads for half marathons and other distances.
So what? He wasn't a marathoner who moved down to the track. He was pretty adept at both and successful on the track first. He also wasn't much of a road racer during the height of his career...other than the marathon....but road racing for the most part was not as popular in the US during that time....at least at an elite level.
And Ron Hill did the same thing in '64, finishing 18th and 19th in each event. It's just the way the world worked back then.
Zat0pek wrote:
I could see Hall being somewhat an exception to that pattern (even though he did dabble in a couple of 10s briefly when moving up to the marathon) if he'd ever decided to take the 10,000 seriously as a primary event for a year or two.
No. Hall was a 13:22 5k runner at Stanford, one of the best collegians ever.