Ebuya ran a 13:03 not knowing how many laps a 5k was. And you say Ritz would've been in the medal hunt.

No, but it didn't take him long: http://www.iaaf.org/news/athletes/newsid=46163.html. I'd been rooting for him ever since his Bekele upset. After that interview with Simms/Ngeny, I'm officially a huge fan.

malmo wrote:

Off the Grid wrote:

JE running 13:03 on his 2nd try

Really?

Ricky's story sounds very true from the little I know about the Turkana people.

Very few KEnyans have been to Turkana region because of its aridity and its geographic location.

It's very remote, unproductive, viciously hot and just detached from the rest of the country.

Lodwar is the main town in the region but it is nothing much to talk about anyway.

Here is a map of Kenya.

The Turkanas live around Lake Turkana and inhabit the region between the Sudan, Uganda and Ethiopia borders. It is one forgotten place.

Successive Kenyan governments, from Jomo KEnyatta's to Daniel Arap Moi's to Mwai Kibaki's have consistently neglected this area and its people. Although Ebuya was born in another part of Kenya, his parents grew up in this very hot and under developed region and this makes Ricky's story very probable.

So, did Ebuya run a 13.02 5k in his fourth race? PErhaps. We can only take him at his word.

Personally, other than Paul Ereng and now Joseph Ebuya, and very few politicians, I ( and many Kenyans) do not know of any people of repute from this community. I am talking about Teachers (successful) top police/military guys, Engineers, doctors, lawyers, businessmen, footballers (soccer players), Rugby, volleyball players, top students e.t.c.

The reason is because the government(s) have succeeded at marginalising this region for the last almost fifty years of our existence as a republic.

There is this joke that is usually told in Kenya of Turkanas. It has to do with a Turkana(s) moving from their home area (Turkana area) to other parts of Kenya, let's say Eldoret, Nakuru, Kitale or wherever.

The joke goes something like this;

"Natoka Lodwar, naenda Kenya".

Literally translated, it means that "I am coming from Lodwar and heading to Kenya."

ONe of my best friends is a high school teacher. He is a classmate of mine from standard one right to college and is also a neighbour back home. He taught at Baragoi secondary school (the area of Ebuya's birth) for over ten years after graduating from college.

He used to tell me that the children (students) over there never get mid term breaks and the reason is simple but astounding.

Mid term breaks (the equivalent of summer break) are usually a week long and when/while other students across the country go to their homes to link up with their families, the children of the Turkanas, Pokots, Samburus, Rendilles (and all those of all the nomadic tribes in the regions) don't. Some of these people do not have permanent homes due to the nomadic lives that they lead.

According to him, the students go to the last place that they left their parents on the day they reopened school but by then, they (families) have moved (since they are nomads) in search of greener pastures.

The students then ask from those they come across where the greener pastures are (in order to try and locate thier parents) and then they start pursuing them on foot. By the time they link up with them, it is usually after a week or two or more and by then, school has resumed. some of them never even get back to school.

So, to forestall this, the school management decided to do away with any more mid term breaks to keep them in school.

So, when Ricky says that Ebuya (who is illiterate) doesn't know how to use the clock to tell what time it is, itis very plausible.

Yes, we are all skeptics and cynics but there is nothing made up in this story from what I know of the community.

TheRabbit wrote:

No smarty-pants, other way around. If they were 55 years old, they'd say they were 50. Honesty is valued less in some cultures.

Dont make them out to be evil liars. Lying about an age in order to make enough money to eat and live should be perfectly understandable.

When you mean Kenyans have been running, yep that is true but they haven't been running thinking of winning medals or competing!

Ebuya must have been running trying to save his dad's cattles from cattle rustlers!

So many Kenyans who became professional might have been exposed to running as a survival means but not like westerners who run only when they are in their track suits!

Secondly, I will give you a good example of myself! I have been running only when playing soccer!

Many Kenyans Love soccer, so they run alot chasing the ball!

In my primary school days I coould play soccer from 5am to 7 am then go to school and still play from 4:30pm to 6pm then go home! I never thought of running! I hated it!

Many Kenyans Hate running if you don't know!

I only like 100 metres and 200 metres cause they were short and quick!

In 2008 July someone coerced me to do a 5k race, but was reluctant...I was 33 years of age then!

My first 5k was a 17:30

I believe if I was in my 20s I could have dipped under 16 minutes!

So that was shocking to me since I haven't done any serious training!

I repeated the same feat in 2009!

So stop talking with little experience!

K

Thanks for the informative post, NativeSon.

I think it's odd, and perhaps unfortunate, that so many Americans take so little interest in the life stories of East African runners. I'm fascinated and often inspired by the lives that many of them have led. In contrast, I find it hard to get real excited about some American runner who has led a rather pampered life through college and beyond and is now trying to squeeze out a couple more seconds in a 5k by living in a nitrogen house, running on some anti-gravity treadmill, getting his blood platelets centrifuged, or engaging in some other high-tech procedure.

bc they come in last. you people are not going to win anything sooner. say wherever you may, kenya will continue winning and you will continue coming last

No if they are 55 and claim that they are 50 they can stay in their jobs for another 5 years.There is no pension guarantee in kenya apart from in the armed forces and the police but even in the armed services the pension is peanuts.The age scandal is a way of life in kenya- a means of survival.

NativeSon, excellent post!

Truthsayer, if you can't distinguish the top Kenyan runners each year, then you cant possibly be following the sport closely enough.

You bring up the "lack or personality" issue, that keeps popping up.

IF they speak another language, maybe they can express their real selves better through an interpreter? But that would mean actually wanting to know a bit more about them. Frankly, and sadly, our society has no time for that.

So they come, the race, they win, they leave, and they remain largely anonymous.

I think the made up part of the story is when Simms says that it took Ebuya two years to understand that he had to be first over the line in a race. How can you not understand that. Its not like he is autistic or something.

1) Comparing someone who could've been in the medal hunt to the champion is imbecilic. Compare him to the other medal-winners

2) Ritz was coming off of a 2-year training regimen geared exclusively towards a marathon and STILL demonstrated sub-13 5k speed

3) Ritz still ran faster than 13:03

Thanks Avocados and Tommy2nutts.

Rojo did a wonderful job with this interview. Congratulations and a big thanks.

cmon wrote:

I think the made up part of the story is when Simms says that it took Ebuya two years to understand that he had to be first over the line in a race. How can you not understand that. Its not like he is autistic or something.

If that were true, it would speak volumes about the competence of his advisers wouldn't it?

This tread is typical of this message board in many ways. Take words written in an interview, distort the words and embellish it into something else.

"Ran 13:03 not knowing how many laps 5k was" I missed that part of the interview.

"Ran 13:03 in his 2nd 5k" Nope

"Ran 13:03 in his 4th race" nope, I can count 6th using his known races of 2005. Emphasis "known". That's not counting what he may have run in 2004.

"runs 13:03 after a few months training." Started running in 2003, trained in camp for most of 2004, Ran 13:03 the end of July 2005, so you're probably looking at 2 years -- which in itself is remarkable. No need for embellishment.

The point here is that interviews and published accounts (typical weeks training, etc) often take on a life of their own in the minds of people here. Step back and read what was actually said or written, not what you want it to mean. Then throw in the human fallibility of recollection and embellishment and sort it out.

One thing for sure, even if his training started earlier than what was reported, lets say 3 years before his 13:03 of 2005, when you get right down to it, he sure hasn't improved much in the last 5 years. Maybe this year he steps up, or maybe the WXC race is another one-off performance never to be duplicated again? Or maybe a move to a different coaching/managing situation is needed?

2003 started running

2004 trained most of the year

2005

14:04.2 4 Kosmu Mar

13:51.7 7 Kakmega Mar

13:26.3hA 5 NC Nairobi 17 Jun

13:40.3hA 8 WCT Nairobi 25 Jun

13:17.61 2 KareliaG Lappeenranta 21 Jul

13:03.79 4r1 KBC Heusden 23 Jul

13:21.79 3 BMC London 6 Aug

13:07.06 6 VD Bruxelles 26 Aug

13:24.82 10 ISTAF Berlin 4 Sep

2006

13:34.93A 2 CWGT Nairobi 4 Feb

13:05.89 4 CWG Melbourne 20 Mar

13:02.97 8 Bislett Oslo 2 Jun

13:32.62 1 Znam Zhukovskiy 24 Jun

12:58.03 6 Gaz Saint-Denis 8 Jul

13:42.93 3-19 WJ Beijing 20 Aug

2007

13:10.59 1 Metropole Villeneuve d'Ascq 8 Jun

13:09.01 5 GSpike Ostrava 27 Jun

13:20.4hA 2 WC Tr Nairobi 28 Jul

13:48.21 9h1 WC Osaka 30 Aug

12:51.00 4 VD Bruxelles 14 Sep

13:40.43 4 WAF Stuttgart 23 Sep

2008

13:18.25 5 FBKG Hengelo 24 May

13:29.28 11 ISTAF Berlin 1 Jun

13:06.61 5 GGala Roma 11 Jul

13:21.35 8 WK Zürich 29 Aug

2009

13:26.01 17 FBKG Hengelo 1 Jun

13:21.28 13 ISTAF Berlin 14 Jun

13:49.6hA 1h1 NC Nairobi 27 Jun

13:20.2hA 2 WC Tr Nairobi 25 Jul

13:22.41 7h1 WC Berlin 20 Aug

13:39.59 13 WC Berlin 23 Aug

13:00.22 6 WK Zürich 28 Aug

12:58.16 6 VD Bruxelles 4 Sep

13:26.68 6 Colorful Daegu 25 Sep