Alf Shrubb. wrote:
My favourite story and an indication as to the character of the chap, was when he first gained selection for the national team and received his Great British tracksuit, he put it one and paraded himself, walking around Harrods for 3 hours, presumably imagining he was being admired by all and sundry.
we get it Alf...you didn't like the guy. It's time to move on with your life.
I knew Gordon from 1966 in UK and NZ.
He was a dynamo of action and integrity. Was fed up with conventional illogic in many aspects that inhibited lives. He was frustrated at how the people of the world just didn't think anything through and reiterated cliche views as read in the Sunday papers or were "culturally acceptable".
So he'd get a little mad and be bombastic to wake up our ideas. He fought poor integrity at all levels and even when death approached he also took it on head to head in the same way he did with Kuts and Zatopek.
The english prose included in these brief anecdotes are certainly worth the price of admission. Carry on gentlemen!
He never smoked - ever.
5 year old thread bro.
Aye, Pirie was gutted after the loss to Kuts down under, so bloody knackered he lost the 5k. Found him to be a wanker, he was.
Cheers, Seb.
Running Wild was one of the first books I read when I started training seriously aged 14 in 1971 and I still re-read it on a regular basis. Pirie was a great runner and I am disgusted at some of the comments here - even if they were written 5 years ago. Some FACTS
1)Pirie says in his book that his true ability was always at 5000m and below but he was pushed into the longer distances by British team management who felt he could be more valuable as a points scorer at the longer distances. He really wanted to double in 5000 & 1500 in 1956 but wasn't selected at the shorter distance even though he was probably worth his place.
2) He could probably have won silver in the 10k if he had ignored Kuts but ran only for gold- and help produce one of the great Olympic races of all time.
3) When the 5000 WR was outside 14 minutes he said he could break 13:40 - and he did, running 13:36.8. Equivalent to someone today saying they can run12:15 for 5000 and then going out and doing it.
4) Clearly, he had his faults and weaknesses both as an athlete and a person - but which one of us doesn't?!!!
mark b wrote:
Running Wild was one of the first books I read when I started training seriously aged 14 in 1971 and I still re-read it on a regular basis. Pirie was a great runner and I am disgusted at some of the comments here - even if they were written 5 years ago. Some FACTS
1)Pirie says in his book that his true ability was always at 5000m and below but he was pushed into the longer distances by British team management who felt he could be more valuable as a points scorer at the longer distances. He really wanted to double in 5000 & 1500 in 1956 but wasn't selected at the shorter distance even though he was probably worth his place.
2) He could probably have won silver in the 10k if he had ignored Kuts but ran only for gold- and help produce one of the great Olympic races of all time.
3) When the 5000 WR was outside 14 minutes he said he could break 13:40 - and he did, running 13:36.8. Equivalent to someone today saying they can run12:15 for 5000 and then going out and doing it.
4) Clearly, he had his faults and weaknesses both as an athlete and a person - but which one of us doesn't?!!!
Well said just finished The Impossible Hero and even his brother said they should not have picked him for the 5,000m / 10,000m double
The late Walter Hesketh coached me for a while before I moved away from the area. Walter was a big rival of his over xc and said while they were deadly enemies in races, they got on well off the track. Once Pirie was on the victory rostrum after some international race and Walter 'debagged' him. I'm not sure how he took that but they still had many laughs afterwards.
Walter beat Pirie in the national xc and said he could not undesrtand why a track man like Pirie tried to take him on over the hills. But that's the way he was a real competitor, a warrior.
I think Pirie was frustrated as a coach with people who did not share his work ethic. Coaching is a series of frustrations, the hardest of which is that it
is not directly measurable. In running nobody can argue with the clock and perhaps as one of GB's greatest ever runner people should have listened more to him.
At the time Walter coached me Pirie had already passed away. He said he hoped to meeet him again and run up that hill again but this time they would be much closer.
He was a member of South London Harriers, based in Coulsdon, South London.
The problem with some of the critiques here is that it reflects British modesty and under statement, where someone like Pirie really knew he was good and made no bones about it - not typically British, you might say. He called a spade a spade, and of course he did hold a high opinion of himself because he was good, or had been good.
Just because you eat a relatively healthy diet does not mean that you will escape the ravages of colon cancer, common in caucasian men, and running is no panacea for that. Not sure about his diet, but I assume he was not a vegetarian and ate meat, which can be an aggravating factor in the progress of colon cancer.
His 13:36 for 5,000 on cinders was a phenomenal time. Probably equivalent to what Ritzenhein did in the 5000 himself a few years ago (12:56). Pirie's time for 5000 was equivalent to around 28:12 for 10,000 track, which was phenomenal in that era.
In his day, 60 was relatively old. Now, 60 is like being middle aged. Times change.
Ghost in China
Since many of his contemporaries are still alive 24 years after he died I think it's safe to say that 60 hasn't been considered old since cave man days.
He died in 1991, not 1891. My great aunt died that year at 101. Her husband had gone three years earlier at 98. I think average male life expectancy in the US was 74 then so no, 60 was not old. Pirie was a firm believer in "natural, organic" foods so there is a certain irony in the way he died. He'd been working as a logger in his later years and if I recall correctly thought that his cancer was caused by some sort of chemicals that had been sprayed onto the trees he'd been cutting.
Wood dust on its own is carcinogenic, no spray necessary.
not sure whether it's worth replying to such an old post but I am not prepared to let one of my running heroes be traduced in this manner. If you read "Running Wild" (Pirie's autobiography) you will learn that when he was awarded his first international vest he did indeed try it on and spent some time wearing it IN THE PRIVACY OF HIS OWN BEDROOM and was very embarrassed whenever another member of his family caught him doing this!
ghost wrote:
He was a member of South London Harriers, based in Coulsdon, South London.
The problem with some of the critiques here is that it reflects British modesty and under statement, where someone like Pirie really knew he was good and made no bones about it - not typically British, you might say. He called a spade a spade, and of course he did hold a high opinion of himself because he was good, or had been good.
Just because you eat a relatively healthy diet does not mean that you will escape the ravages of colon cancer, common in caucasian men, and running is no panacea for that. Not sure about his diet, but I assume he was not a vegetarian and ate meat, which can be an aggravating factor in the progress of colon cancer.
His 13:36 for 5,000 on cinders was a phenomenal time. Probably equivalent to what Ritzenhein did in the 5000 himself a few years ago (12:56). Pirie's time for 5000 was equivalent to around 28:12 for 10,000 track, which was phenomenal in that era.
In his day, 60 was relatively old. Now, 60 is like being middle aged. Times change.
Ghost in China
Ghost in China, FKA Ghost in Saudi, FKA Ghost in Korea, FKA Ghost in the Iberian Peninsula, FKA Ghost in the South Dakota Badlands - I take umbrage with your poo-pooing the quality & effectiveness of cinder tracks.
A raked, slightly damp cinder track is a dream to run on. You are basing your assertions on the arid, dusty cinder tracks of the San Joaquin Valley (San Bernadino, Fresno, Bakersfield, Stockton).
Cinder tracks in more temperate climate (Northern Europe, White City, Auckland) were very fast. Obviously you want to compete early in the meet before the inside lane gets cut up.
The best yet - a perfectly groomed (PGA tour quality) grass track mowed, clipped & rolled by a fanatical cricket grounds keeper is the perfect blend of cushioning & spring.
Why hasn't anyone mentioned Pirie's marvelously smooth running form?
Cinder tracks were fine, but if you compare cinder and track, logically one would gain some yardage on tartan, although not that much, admittedly. If one looks at a runner like Bob Holt (Hercules Wimbledon) he was running around the time (70s and 80s) when he could make a direct comparison between running on cinder tracks (Wimbledon Park, Motspur Park, etc) and tartan tracks (Crystal Palace, West London stadium, Highgate, etc..) -
Bob Holt always thought tartan conferred benefit, but he was a 'form runner' and so tartan suited his metronomic style, as it did his brother, David - who famously went on to qualify for the G.B. team for the 1972 Munich Olympics in the 10,000 at Crystal Palace (on tartan). Bob's best on tartan was 28:39, and 13:48 (5,000). The disadvantage in comparing times with Bob, is that when he ran races such as the Surrey Championships, Motspur Park, the quality of the field was not as strong, so the times were not generally as fast.
In my own case - as a runner of modest club ability in the UK, in the late 70s, I ran 15:17 for 5,000 on cinders at Wimbledon Park (Melbourne Trophy, August 1978), and then did not better that until I went to Mansfield State College (U.S.A.) on a running scholarship in 1980 - 1982. I ran 14:42 for the indoor 3 mile race on a 200m track at Bucknell university in February 1981. . That 14:42 was only a few seconds better, intrinsically, than the outdoor 15:17.
Many experts have postulated that Ron Clarke's 27:39 on cinders back in the 60s would have been worth around 20 seconds faster, but this is something which is difficult to establish, because there are so many factors which come into play. Jim Ryun was another runner who ran very fast on cinders for the mile, and I do not think ran significantly faster on tartan in his day.
Ghost in China - apply today, relaxed working conditions (16 hour week)
When my dad was doing his National Service in the late '50's he was stationed at a base where Pirie was
Dad says he never saw him in uniform, just in running clothes racking up mile after mile - but the thing he really recalls was Pirie's habit of running with a transistor radio held up to his ear
Not long before he died he presented me with my medal for the Devon cross country championships - most of the younger runners had no idea who he was
Didn't know he was ill then, but I recall being puzzled at his very yellow complexion
I new Gordon well in New Zealand in the mid to late 80's.
Even then in his late 50's he ran twice a day often 10 miles or more.
He suffered health problem but not running injuries. I was told his medical problems were a result of not drinking enough fluids. He did not like the taste of water.
Gordon was obsessed with running but those he coached tended to find other coaches after a while.
[quote]007 wrote:
I was told his medical problems were a result of not drinking enough fluids. He did not like the taste of water.
[quote]
If only someone would invent some sort of flavor. for water.
007 wrote:
I was told his medical problems were a result of not drinking enough fluids. He did not like the taste of water.
Sounds like BS...
mark b wrote:
3) When the 5000 WR was outside 14 minutes he said he could break 13:40 - and he did, running 13:36.8. Equivalent to someone today saying they can run12:15 for 5000 and then going out and doing it.
Gundar Hagg ran under 14 mins for 5000m in 1942. Gordon Pirie would have been aged 11 then - was he already talking about running sub 13 40 at that age?