Craig Virgin's 30th Anniversary...

Sagarin wrote:

It represents the death of the US actually making a mark in world cross, because after Virgin, and maybe Porter in his immediate aftermath, there's been nobody close to the podium. I agree with the Greg Meyer quote too -- much tougher to win a coveted medal in the race with the most depth relative to a diluted Olympic specialty. Of course, nowadays, depth means something altogether different. I still think Virgin's two world cross wins were the most significant American distance running achievements to date.

I know what you are getting at ... we have had no Champions at World Cross for men besides Virgin. But to be fair, in the "immediate aftermath" there were many people close to the podium, and on it ...

1980 Virgin 1st ... Dillon 12th

1981 Virgin 1st ... Hunt 8th

1982 Salazar 2nd ... Clary 27th

1983 Salazar 4th ... Porter 9th

1984 Porter 4th ... Eyestone 6th ... Virgin 17th

1985 Bickford 10th ... Porter 12th

1986 Porter 6th ... Easker 10th

1987 Porter 7th ... Eyestone 12th

1988 is when the wheels kind of fell off for everyone but Kenya, Morocco and Ethiopia. The gaps to first got bigger and the top twenty looked like a triangular between Kenya/Ethiopia/and Morocco.

5-15 second gaps for the winner became the norm. Once it was 28 seconds.

i once met virgin at the indy oly trials in '88- the nicest guy you'll ever meet with such accomplishments. however, did anyone notice a distinct lack of african contingent in that xc video? sure, we'd have some great looking american placers in world xc if the ethiopians, kenyans, ugandans, eritreans, and moroccans didn't really show up with what they have now....

An incredible talent. I saw him several times in his prime. One of the most impressive performances was a low-key invitational in Carbondale a week or two before the HS state meet. Virgin had next to no competition, yet--totally on his own--blasted an 8:48 2m and 4:08.5 mile within an hour or so. Unreal.

newname wrote:

I know what you are getting at ... we have had no Champions at World Cross for men besides Virgin. But to be fair, in the "immediate aftermath" there were many people close to the podium, and on it ...

1980 Virgin 1st ... Dillon 12th

1981 Virgin 1st ... Hunt 8th

1982 Salazar 2nd ... Clary 27th

1983 Salazar 4th ... Porter 9th

1984 Porter 4th ... Eyestone 6th ... Virgin 17th

1985 Bickford 10th ... Porter 12th

1986 Porter 6th ... Easker 10th

1987 Porter 7th ... Eyestone 12th

1988 is when the wheels kind of fell off for everyone but Kenya, Morocco and Ethiopia. The gaps to first got bigger and the top twenty looked like a triangular between Kenya/Ethiopia/and Morocco.

5-15 second gaps for the winner became the norm. Once it was 28 seconds.

You are correct and thanks... I forgot about Salazar in there. But I just simply cannot imagine another American winning world cross. Can you? Dathan's 3rd place behind K. Bekele as a junior obviously heralded something big in the making, and he kind of followed in Virgin's footsteps to a degree, being from the Midwest, damn near breaking 9:00 in the two-mile as a skinny, immature looking sophomore (maybe he did?), and having a proclivity for cross country. The funny thing is, for a guy who could literally run until he collapsed, Virgin looked awfully good in the finishing chute after winning that 1980 world cross title.

Meb's been the closest American to the top ten in world cross in sometime and he's an Olympic silver medalist!

Just chiming in to say that I really appreciate the link to the video. What a great finish.

Also, joining the club of folks who thought he had died with the dedicated, black backgrounded page. Not cool letsrun.

ACE inhibitors cause cough wrote:

i once met virgin at the indy oly trials in '88- the nicest guy you'll ever meet with such accomplishments. however, did anyone notice a distinct lack of african contingent in that xc video? sure, we'd have some great looking american placers in world xc if the ethiopians, kenyans, ugandans, eritreans, and moroccans didn't really show up with what they have now....

The Ethiopian team came in 1981. there was a big article in The Runner mag that year.

There are many sites that are good for WCCC research, but this one has full results:

It seems like the Africans really caught fire (at least in this event) around '81. By '84 there were 3 in the top-10 and in '85 there were 5. By '86 there were 7.

People always say that Africans didn't dominate the distances in the 60's and 70's and 80's ... and they DID NOT like they do now. But even back in the 60s there was Keino, Wolde, Bikila, Jipcho, Gammoudi ...

In the 70s there was Rono, Kimobwa, Kimeto, Nyambui, Yifter, Eshetu Tura, Filbert Bayi ...

By the 80's it had exploded with Rono, Kedir, Auoita, Koech, Bulti, Bile, Debele, Kigen, Nzau, Ikangaa, Muge, Julius Korir, etc ...

There were always stars, Olympic champs and WR holders, it just wasn't the near complete stranglehold that there is now.

What an inspiring thread - thanks Letsrun. If you will indulge this old runner a moment, I would like to tell a Craig Virgin story whom I met when I was a teenager new to running. I was 19 years old and it was 1982. I had started running late, maybe 2 years earlier. We all have different and often unique reasons for taking up a sport that is not mainstream in our country. My girlfriends dad was a guy named Carl Seelhoff and he was one of the top runners in my state of Idaho. I was madly in love with his daughter and wanted to impress the hell out of him so I started running and spent that first summer learning to run (to suffer) and road racing with him. I had some early success and knew I had found the sport I would love for a long time (and won the girl as well). Virgin mentions the importance of timing - as pure good luck would have it - an amazing guy named Jerry Quiller - simply Q to his runners -had come over from Colorado to take over the helm as head Track and Cross Country coach at mostly unknown-in-running-circles Idaho State University in Pocatello. Q has a lot of influence in the sport and as a result brought the US World Cross Country Trials to Pocatello in 1982 which was run at the local horse racing track in the mud and snow. I was a nobody kid punk when Q asked me to take Virgin out for a jog the day before the race (not on the course, you didn't want to run on if you didn't have to). Well, Virgin was a decent guy - he showed interest in my own running and was curious about my town. Me? well, I wanted to talk about HIS running but I was too young and scared to know how to bring it up. Yet, there he was striding next to me - winner of 2 of the 3 previous world cross country titles. I still remember running by a local steak and seafood place and when the smell of the steaks hit us he just said "damn that smells great". I wish I could share with the readers here the picture I took of the lead group of runners in that race, covered in mud. Some of the runners: Alberto Salazar, Craig Virgin, Pat Porter, Thom Hunt, Ed Eyestone, Herb Linsey, Jon Sinclair. Virgin and Salazar were 2 of the biggest names in the sport(Salazar was running absolutely brilliantly at that time). Well, thanks for hanging in there and reading this. Alan

Alan Newton wrote: I wish I could share with the readers here the picture I took on

If you don't have a scanner find someone who does. If you don't know how to share it online then send it to me, I'll get it done for you.

Sounds like a photo of the kind of sport that most of us signed up for.

malmo wrote:

5/25 4:10.0 State meet heat

5/26 8:42.6 & 4:12.2 State finals

1973 Illinois State Meet Prelims

1973 Illinois State Meet Prelims

http://tinyurl.com/yd33v79

I can't see it.

I'm not on facebook:(

The Olympics and IAAF Outdoor WC are the only two major medals. I've heard a Virgin's two WXC champs in passing before but Shorter is very famous for his Olympic medal.

'The other talked about how Virgin would have been a medal contender in 1980 for the 10,000. I think his 10k time that year was 2nd in the world and he also beat the Olympic 10k medallist for the world cross crown in 1981'

Yes, the 1980 Olympic Bronze Medallist Mohammed Kedir finished behind Virgin in the 1981 World XC - also behind him Memede who went on to set the 10,000m world record

1981 World XC:

Gold Craig Virgin (USA)

35:05 min

Silver Mohamed Kedir (ETH)

35:07 min

Bronze Fernando Mamede (POR)

35:09 min

Virgin was the world leader in 1980 and would have been a very strong contender for a medal

Great post by Alan Newton above by the way

Plenty of could, shoulda, wouldas's in sports history. The only names that will last are major's medalists such as Mills, Shorter, Ryun, Meb, Deena, Kara, Shannon, Shalane, etc.

Major League wrote:

Plenty of could, shoulda, wouldas's in sports history. The only names that will last are major's medalists such as Mills, Shorter, Ryun, Meb, Deena, Kara, Shannon, Shalane, etc.

If you are not allowed to compete in the 1980 Games its hardly a case of coulda woulda

Anyway, he won the World XC twice which is even more difficult then an Olympic Gold as you have double the runners from each country competing

Hey Alan, great story. Was that also the XC National championsip, that Sinclair won? I would also like to see the photo posted. Thanks for sharing. wf

Major League wrote:

Plenty of could, shoulda, wouldas's in sports history. The only names that will last are major's medalists such as Mills, Shorter, Ryun, Meb, Deena, Kara, Shannon, Shalane, etc.

Some of those runners are all-time greats like Craig Virgin is ... but, in the words of my old XC coach (who placed 3rd in the IL State Championships when it was an all-classes affair):

"Kara and Shannon aren't good enough to carry Craig's jock."

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Anyway, he won the World XC twice which is even more difficult then an Olympic Gold as you have double the runners from each country competing

You mean TRIPLE the runners from each country competing.

World XC. Yes, the hardest race of any kind in the world to win.

Tom

newname wrote:

1980 Virgin 1st ... Dillon 12th

1981 Virgin 1st ... Hunt 8th, Nenow 17th, Donakowski 18th, Bickford 19th

1982 Salazar 2nd ... Clary 27th

1983 Salazar 4th ... Porter 9th

1984 Porter 4th ... Eyestone 6th ... Virgin 17th

1985 Bickford 10th ... Porter 12th

1986 Porter 6th ... Easker 10th

1987 Porter 7th ... Eyestone 12th