retsam draobyek wrote:
German was over a year younger when he ran 13:25 than when Ritz ran 13:27. If they had raced on the same day, a 19-year old Ritz would have gotten beat by an 18-yr old kid.
I thought 18 year olds were adults?
And off of pure talent I'd vote Fernandez. Better runner currently is Ritz.
How are we defining talent?
1. The ability to run fast with little or no training (just naturally)
2. The ability to run fast with optimal training
3. How fast they have run for their age
4. How fast they have run (total)
5. How fast you project them to run in their career.
In response, I say.
1. German (all distances)
2. ?
3. German (all distances)
4. German (mile), Ritz everything else
5. ?
How is it that versatility is rarely even mentioned here. Dathan is showing world class talent on the track, the roads, and in x-c. Maybe GF's pr's might be subjectively more impressive in track, he's nowhere close to dathans league in cross country at this stage in his career. Not mention that dathan is showing constant progression from the high school level thru world class levels in all respective areas of running, whereas GF is only one of the top talents in the NC's. Nothing taken away from him, but talent should be measured to the degree that results are proven, not just potential. How many times is the notion of the next great prodigy brought up every year for them to only fade into obscurity. Dathan has had his setbacks but continues to move beyond them to improve. German aint even in his league yet.[
retsam draobyek wrote:
bagel time wrote:50% of this information is wrong. Dathan and German ran 1327 and 1325, only German did it the summer going into sophomore year and Dathan did it during the season (sooner).
And just because German ran no faster than 30 second 200s doesn't mean he didn't run 2:00 800s.
German was over a year younger when he ran 13:25 than when Ritz ran 13:27. If they had raced on the same day, a 19-year old Ritz would have gotten beat by an 18-yr old kid.
German was only eight months younger about...not "over a year." I think ritz woukd have won that late into the summer... three or four months after mt sac
They're too different to compare, despite a few similarities. I just hope to see them both do something special in 2012.
What's interesting about German is that whenever he wins, it seems so effortless. It's always been a controlled, even effort, that suggests he still had plenty left in the tank. The times he hasn't won - World XC and Stanford 5K, he was dealing with an injury. At the US 5000 championship, he said he was only concerned with getting the Jr. record. I don't why -- perhaps he was already feeling aches and pains that lead to the injury that kept him from training the rest of the summer.
It looks to me that whenever he was 100%, he ran just fast enough to comfortably win. I don't think he's truly dug deep yet. Hopefully he will avoid injury and get into a competitive situation where we can see what he's truly capable of.
Fernandez easy. I just watched the 4:00/8:34 double at the CA state championships on youtube again...
I think that German is much more talented but definately Rizt has taken his talent and is one of the best distance runners in the world and still will improve
German Fernandez is to distance what Obea Moore is to sprints: the most talented individuals our generation has ever seen.
how do you define talent? who has more speed? more endurance? More power? what about the ability to withstand pain? what about toughness? Dathan ran against Webb and Hall in HS, no slouches. There doesn't appear to be any runner tougher than Dathan.
"talented".......also needs to take into account...having the talent to stay injury free. On that note, I'll go with Ritz.
Yes, he has had injury setbacks but has won several national championships and won some international medals. German on the other hand has to show that his talent of staying healthy so that he can continue to compete on a high level. How knows he may be out of the sport in a year or 2.
oert wrote:
"talented".......also needs to take into account...having the talent to stay injury free. On that note, I'll go with Ritz.
I think this is the first time this statement has ever been uttered. Ritz having a talent for staying injury free! Lol!
Don't feel too clever, it comes up in every thread about them.
Dathan's recent success has made people forget that he's had far more setbacks than German. But he's older, so it's impossible to compare. I'd love to see both get several years of uninterrupted training and see what they can accomplish.
deezy wrote:
How is it that versatility is rarely even mentioned here. Dathan is showing world class talent on the track, the roads, and in x-c. Maybe GF's pr's might be subjectively more impressive in track, he's nowhere close to dathans league in cross country at this stage in his career. Not mention that dathan is showing constant progression from the high school level thru world class levels in all respective areas of running, whereas GF is only one of the top talents in the NC's. Nothing taken away from him, but talent should be measured to the degree that results are proven, not just potential. How many times is the notion of the next great prodigy brought up every year for them to only fade into obscurity. Dathan has had his setbacks but continues to move beyond them to improve. German aint even in his league yet.[
German is how much younger than Ritz? That is not a fair way to judge it at all. I agree that in XC, German isn't close to Ritz. He could be, take away his national race freshman year and he had a hell of a season. He just has to stay healthy. You run 13:25, you're going to be good at cross.
If we want to talk about what they had accomplished up to where German is now (sophomore in college) it's tough to argue against the HSR in the 2 mile (Ritz couldn't get close), NCAA title, WJR in the indoor mile and AJR in the 5000. Ritz had his Footlocker victories, 4th in NCAA cross, 4th in the 5000 at NCAAs and his great 13:27 which were all amazing performances but I don't think you can say he accomplished more than German or is more talented.
In the end both guys are great and we should be rooting for both of them to do well.
I think this is a tough debate, since both of these runners have excellent resumes. I'll probably have to read German's teammates blog for the rest of this season to get a better grasp of his abilities.
this is the stupidest thread i've seen.....german is good and will be great probably, might even own an american record or two someday...but Ritz is better right now. you forgot to put down the fact that Ritz owns the 5k AR....for now atleast
haha, YO wrote:
If we want to talk about what they had accomplished up to where German is now (sophomore in college) it's tough to argue against the HSR in the 2 mile (Ritz couldn't get close), NCAA title, WJR in the indoor mile and AJR in the 5000. Ritz had his Footlocker victories, 4th in NCAA cross, 4th in the 5000 at NCAAs and his great 13:27 which were all amazing performances but I don't think you can say he accomplished more than German or is more talented.
In the end both guys are great and we should be rooting for both of them to do well.
Ritz didn't get the two mile record because he was training for the 5k record. There's no doubt in my mind that Ritz could have run 8:34-8:36.
I think Ritz is a better overall runner, German is a better track runner (based on his mile times and potential).
I don't think the OP means who is a better runner NOW. That's pretty obvious. I think the OP meant that Ritz and German had different levels of overall talent/potential.
When all is said and done, who will have the better PRs?
cowboybuffalo wrote:
Ritz didn't get the two mile record because he was training for the 5k record. There's no doubt in my mind that Ritz could have run 8:34-8:36.
Where did you read that he was training for the 5k record? Ritz took plenty of shots at Nelson's record and he never got it. Just like many other big talents who took aim at that record over the course of 30 years and couldn't crack it.
ever heard of "who cares about her?"
mama mia wrote:
cowboybuffalo wrote:Ritz didn't get the two mile record because he was training for the 5k record. There's no doubt in my mind that Ritz could have run 8:34-8:36.
Where did you read that he was training for the 5k record? Ritz took plenty of shots at Nelson's record and he never got it. Just like many other big talents who took aim at that record over the course of 30 years and couldn't crack it.
I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that Ritz ran a 5k at the beginning of his season to qualify for US champs, and he ran at the US championships (in high school, unlike German). He also ran 13:51 and a 13:44. He wasn't simply focusing on the 2 mile record like German was. He wanted to make the US championships. Also, I do know that Ritz often ran 3-4 events multiple times a week in high school and didn't really focus on being fresh for huge record attempts.
Here's a cool quote I found by Ritz in high school.
"Well, nothing has came close to the world cross country champs," he confides. "I have just mostly had fun with this year. I think of it like this: 'It could all end tomorrow, so enjoy what you have and never take it for granted. And never forget to take an easy run for yourself once in a
while and just remember why you love to run.'"
Ritz didn't have the wheels to run sub 8:40 in high school. He was an aerobic beast, that's why his 5k was so great.