splits say ok state ran smarter than oregon

I am always surprised by the idiots on this board. The poster points out Lananna's strategy, which worked pretty well, by the way, and then the idiots surface. Let's all agree that Lananna's plan worked pretty fricking well. We can all agree to disagree about the strategee itself, but it worked.

Common Sense Rules wrote:

I am always surprised by the idiots on this board. The poster points out Lananna's strategy, which worked pretty well, by the way, and then the idiots surface. Let's all agree that Lananna's plan worked pretty fricking well. We can all agree to disagree about the strategee itself, but it worked.

Im not disputing the strategy of pack running, Im disputing people actually believing that this was the reason puskedra placed as far back as he did...

puskedra had an 8 second lead on the next oregon guy at 5k (and was leading the 2nd chase pack)

by 8k that lead had grown to 17 seconds...if you have figured out some way to keep a pack together from 50-100 meters ahead please enlighten us

this was their best race and some of the oregon guys had career days yesterday but lets not go overboard and make up some imaginary strategy by vin as the excuse for his star having a shitty year

Sir, I believe that it is clear that the only thing shitty here is yourself.

Not to side with the haters here, but he brings up a good point. Not taking anything away from Oregon-- they certainly were the performance of the meet for me, most everyone wrote them off-- but how exactly does one lead a pack and keep everyone together when they are 15-30 seconds behind? Have you ever run at XC Nationals? If you have then you know that 30 seconds can mean like 45 places in mid-race pack.

I certainly am not questioning Vin's strategies-- he's won a lot of big races doing what he does. But I'm just not sure I understand this explanation. Anyone care to explain it to my dense self?

Wow, check out Oklahoma's progression. It's crazy, next to dead last at the 3k, and still 3rd from last at 5k (28th), and then 17th at 8k, then 12th by the end.

I actually checked out their splits, it's absurd how much they stand out with their 3k and 5k splits from the runners around them and in general with 'any' other team in the race.

But back to the subject, I fail to see how they ran that much smarter than the next few following teams, rather, they were just better.

I think the point he was trying to make was that Puskedra was only 6 seconds or so ahead of his pack of teammates at the half way point. This gave them someone, and a pace, to focus on. Surely they realized that they couldn't stay with him. At the end of the race, I believe that Puskedra was only about 12 seconds ahead of the Oregon pack, and a good portion of that was probably generated in the final 400 meter sprint to the finish. So, his point that Luke was working to keep his team focused and together certainly is plausible. I know that I'd prefer one runner losing 10 seconds (to help the team) to having the next four runners each being 5 seconds faster (total of 20 second drop). I think this is why Vin Lananna's team strategy was what it was. Any one with a sane mind knew that Puskedra couldn't stay with Chelenga or Derrick, so he wasn't going to win the race. That being clear, it made good strategic sense to find a way to "pull" the #2 - #5 runners to slightly faster times. Posters here who can't understand this obviously have never run XC on a team that has a coach and teammates that understand how the event works. The strategy was sound and it nearly brought the championship to Oregon.

Common Sense Rules wrote:

Sir, I believe that it is clear that the only thing shitty here is yourself.

whate a well thought out, logical response to the flaws in your argument

me... wrote:

whate a well thought out, logical response to the flaws in your argument

Hey man, he addressed you as "Sir," so I believe you're footin' the bill on this one. Thanks champ, but you've simply been outclassed.

... would anyone like some more scotch?

you people are overthinking this thing waaaay to much

im sorry but 8 seconds at 5k is a lifetime, at that point puskedra was not thinking about keeping the pack together, he was thinking...f*** i feel like shit i hope i dont get passed by too many people

had puskedra run with centro until 6-7k then took off to move up to where he did id agree with you, he didnt, he hung it out there, died, and high teens is what he came up with, no shame in admitting it...

what you need to wrap your head around is that im not condemning vin...he did a great job with some of his runners this year, i am simply saying that he is not perfect...there is absolutely no arguing that puskedra is not as good as he was last year, and slinging to some imaginary team strategy is not going to change that

Common Sense's post about Lananna's strategy makes a lot of sense when you look at the actual results. The comment that Luke Puskedra was 15 - 30 seconds in front of his teammates, is just plain wrong. Either you didn't watch the race, or you don't want to admit that this was classic Vin Lananna coaching. At one point, fairly late in the race, when they made a turn back on the course, Luke Puskedra actually slowed and was yelling back to encourage Centrowitz. Take a look at the results, the Oregon team hit their strategy spot on (with the exception of Diego Mercado, who dropped back a few seconds). This is why Oregon nearly stole the championship and for those who can't grasp the strategy....well, you can't be helped:

2. 143 Oregon ( 30:16 2:31:17)

==========================================================

1 17 524 Luke Puskedra SO 8:41 14:46 23:47 30:02

2 23 516 Matthew Centrowitz SO 8:46 14:54 24:04 30:10

3 25 519 Kenny Klotz SR 8:42 14:54 24:04 30:14

4 27 522 Danny Mercado JR 8:46 14:54 24:04 30:16

5 51 523 Diego Mercado JR 8:46 15:04 24:21 30:35

ReallyExhausted wrote:

Common Sense's post about Lananna's strategy makes a lot of sense when you look at the actual results. The comment that Luke Puskedra was 15 - 30 seconds in front of his teammates, is just plain wrong. Either you didn't watch the race, or you don't want to admit that this was classic Vin Lananna coaching. At one point, fairly late in the race, when they made a turn back on the course, Luke Puskedra actually slowed and was yelling back to encourage Centrowitz. Take a look at the results, the Oregon team hit their strategy spot on (with the exception of Diego Mercado, who dropped back a few seconds). This is why Oregon nearly stole the championship and for those who can't grasp the strategy....well, you can't be helped:

2. 143 Oregon ( 30:16 2:31:17)

==========================================================

1 17 524 Luke Puskedra SO 8:41 14:46 23:47 30:02

2 23 516 Matthew Centrowitz SO 8:46 14:54 24:04 30:10

3 25 519 Kenny Klotz SR 8:42 14:54 24:04 30:14

4 27 522 Danny Mercado JR 8:46 14:54 24:04 30:16

5 51 523 Diego Mercado JR 8:46 15:04 24:21 30:35

hahaha you people are ridiculous...look at the results! 17 seconds! seriously 100 meters...do you honestly think puskedra cost himself 15 place so he could stay 100 meters instead of centro instead of 180 meters...

vin is a great coach, he doesnt need you to make up bullshit excuses for his mistakes...and puskedra this year is a mistake,

As I said....you can't be helped. Keep yapping and keep taking numbers out of the air to justify your bs, but in the end, you are beyond help. Just admit Vin and Oregon had a hell of a strategy and race, and go on with your life (LOL).

Really Exhausted wrote:

As I said....you can't be helped. Keep yapping and keep taking numbers out of the air to justify your bs, but in the end, you are beyond help. Just admit Vin and Oregon had a hell of a strategy and race, and go on with your life (LOL).

pulling numbers out of the air? what are you talking about the numbers are in your post...

puskedra was 23:47 at 8k centro was 24:04...it says so in the results you just posted

so i ask again, how is that drafting or pack running?

I can't believe how the BEST runners and the majority of teams can be SO STUPID as to not be able to properly pace themselves in the most important race of the year.

Colorado has always paced themselves very well over the years and won in 2004 when they weren't favored.

How could anyone in their right mind have watched the womens race and still don't understand what happens when you try to run a few seconds faster than you are capable of? Oh, you believed all that crap the women tried to explain why they blew up?

I could accept a +10 second split over 10k as that isn't going to cost you much time but still if it costs you 4 seconds, that could be as many as 4-10 places. Multiply that by 5 guys and you could be giving away 20-40 points. That may let you move up 2 or 3 places as a team.

A lot of teams had guys running well over +20 seconds. That is just idiotic. A smart and well coached team can take advantage of the stupidity of all the other teams and place much higher than they should.

Yes, I know Chelanga won and went 14:09/14:31. The fact is he was so much better than everyone else it didn't matter and he could have just as easily went out in 14:30 and finished in 14:09. We all know what happened last year when he tried to go out too fast.

As for this ridiculous "pack" garbage, that only happens when you have a bunch of runners with equal talent. If you don't, you are not going to be helping your team in any way by making them run together during a race.

I usually don't contribute to stupid arguments, but it's a slow day. Me is right on this one. Prerace strategy is all well and good, but the "30 second spread" just represents Vin's assessment of the relative fitness of his runners. If you are fit enough to hang in the pack you do so. If your are not fit enough, then all the strategy in the world won't keep you in the pack. If you are fit enough to run away from the pack, then your team is better off with you running ahead and scoring lower. Having 5 guys at a similar level of fitness isn't strategy.

do the scores exist for the women at 2k, 4k and 6k?