Sebastian Coe: 1984 Olympic 1500m

EPO wasn't used in sport as a drug until 1988, when cyclist started injecting it.

Thanks for that Zat0pek, great post.

weIInow wrote:

Thanks for that Zat0pek, great post.

I've always believed that if Coe would have had to run 3:28 to win that day, he would have done it.

I think there are exceedingly rare moments when everything - body, mind and soul - comes together for an athlete in a way where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It only happens to a small percentage, and when it does it produces something the athlete will never again be able to replicate.

I think that's the case with Coe that day.

Can you show us the photo please

I too was in the stadium in LA, '84, for all of Coe's races. It was magnificent to see him come out, day after day, and race so fast. I remember watching him before the 800 final. He sat on the track, down near the 100M start, leaning against a lane marker. For several minutes, while the other athletes warmed up, he sat quietly, staring straight ahead, paying no attention to anyone else. I think he was concentrating on his race plan. He could really focus. I am sure he was doing the same before each race. He destroyed the field in the 1500 final. No question about that.

middle distance wrote:

Cram's mile was off 2 almost identical first laps of 57.2 & 57.3, followed by a breather of 58.6. One would expect a fast last lap with such a breakdown, especially with Cram's style of running; he always went full out from 3-400m.

Coe's Olympic run started off at 58.9, then got increasingly faster, almost every 100m, ~ 58.0, 56.4, 39.2 (53.2). His last 4 100's got faster, at 14.0, 13.5, 13.0 & 12.7. He only really started moving with about 120m to go. He wasn't at full stretch over the entire last lap as Cram was in Oslo.

Cram's calf problem that bothered him throughout his career almost caused him to miss L.A.. For some reason you forget to mention that Deano.

Crammy was flying a little quicker than Coe was - your times confirm.Crammy was 1.1 second under the world record. Coe was 1.7 over it.Crammy beat Coe in the process too - Cram was fit in '85.He was underdone in '83 and still won - 2 years of minimal training really affected him in '84.

Crammy ran a world record - 3.46 with a 53 last lap - your making it sound easy saying he had a "breather". If he didn't have a breahter he'd have run 3.45

He was a second under the world record.

Where did you get all your figures from, Deano?

Also, he was training in December (at least) and ended up having the perfect preparation as he couldn't afford to peak early - he peaked on the day - after 8 months of training.

Sure he was sick in 83 but okay in 84 - stop overstating things.

[quote]mid distance runner wrote:

Crammy was flying a little quicker than Coe was - your times confirm.

Crammy was 1.1 second under the world record. Coe was 1.7 over it.

Crammy beat Coe in the process too - Cram was fit in '85.

He was underdone in '83 and still won - 2 years of minimal training really affected him in '84.

[quote]

NO, he wasn't running faster at the FINISH, which is what you originally said. The finish to a race is the last 100m. Coe was marginally faster in the homestraight, by 0.2. Their last 200m and 400m times are also very similar. Coe's last 800m was substantially faster.

An athlete runs what is needed for him to win that day. Coe needed 3:32. If Abascal had gone harder from 400 out, then Coe would have run faster. The most significant aspect is that Coe was accelerating in the last 100m (it was his fastest 100m split), whereas Cram was starting to slow down in Oslo. In LA, Coe was pulling further away from Cram with every stride. That means there was unused energy there. If he'd needed a 52.0 last lap, he'd have run it.

As for Cram being unfit, that is a claim always exaggerated. Yes, he had injury problems going into LA, and he was short of a few races. That doesn't make him unfit! Coe had run few races too and certainly didn't have as solid a winter build up as Cram did. So it's swings and roundabouts.

You don't run 3:33 in an Olympic final and win a silver medal if you're not fit. I remember reading in a British newspaper prior to LA that he was in the same form and had a similar build up as he had before the Worlds in 83. After Helsinki he ran 3:31 and beat Ovett, he certainly wasn't underdone.

Cram's coach, Hedley, said on the eve of the Europeans in '86 in The Times, that Cram was in the best shape of his life, better than in '85. A few days later he gets beat by Coe and then the excuses start. The Cram camp then claim his calf had flared up the week before. Amazingly it was ok again for the 1500m.

I have no problems ackowledging that Cram in 85 was better than he was in '84, but then it's equally true that in Oslo 85 Coe wasn't in the form he'd displayed in LA. He'd missed a month's training and racing in late June/early July. So if you want to stick to your "Cram wasn't fit" routine, the at least be consistent and say Coe wasn't fit in Oslo. He was fit btw, just not anywhere near a peak.

Both LA and Oslo were very special runs, but factually it is wrong to say Cram finished faster, and it should be recognised that they were run in very different circumstances. One was at the end of probably the greatest series of races ever in an Olympic final, the other was a one off paced race. I don't think Coe had anything to prove when it came to running one off super fast times. He did that rather a few more times than Cram.

Cram is on record as saying that he'd swap all his other medals and world records for that gold in LA. Coe had 2 of them.

Zat0pek wrote:

weIInow wrote:

Thanks for that Zat0pek, great post.

I've always believed that if Coe would have had to run 3:28 to win that day, he would have done it.

I think there are exceedingly rare moments when everything - body, mind and soul - comes together for an athlete in a way where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It only happens to a small percentage, and when it does it produces something the athlete will never again be able to replicate.

I think that's the case with Coe that day.

I agree entirely. I think Scott said at the time that Coe ran like "a man possessed" and that no one was going to beat him that day.

Interestingly, Coe was quoted in his biography of saying that he felt so good with 800m to go that he seriously thought of going for it then, with a long drive for home. He had to make a split decision and decided to wait. He believes if he had gone he'd have run under 3:30. That would have meant a last 800 in around 1:47.3!

It's a shame he had such bad pacing 10 days later in Zurich (55.0 followed by 60.9 from Robinson, again! I'm sure he hated Coe and did it on purpose. LOL) because I'm sure 3:27/3:28 was a possibilty that night, when one considers how easily he pulled away from the pack in 12.5 off a 53.0 last lap.

Over the years this is the one race I have watched the most.

With 250 to go Coe starts to wind up. He's been in second place pretty much from the start. Cram starts to go buy him and the TV camera had on shows Coe turn to look at Cram, grit his teeth, and take off. Huge accelleration.

Cram stays close going into the curve but starts boobing his head. Coe seems to be in top speed but coming off the curve injects impossible third accelleration in that last lap. A whole different gear (the 12.7 finishing 100).

He yells at the stands and gives the number one slaute slowly and defiantly. THhen he takes his victory lap stopping only to bow to the Union Jack someone waves in the stands.

Classic stuff.

mid distance runner wrote:

Crammy beat Coe in the process too - Cram was fit in '85.

He was underdone in '83 and still won - 2 years of minimal training really affected him in '84.

Cram was fine in '83 and was ranked World No 1.

He had a normal winter's training in 83/84.

Ludicrous to say he had 2 years minimal training before LA.

Much longer process to come back from a serious illness as you are unable to do any form of exercise. With a specific injury you can still do other conditioning training.

Cram in '84 was a better athlete than he was in '82 and about on par with his 83 form. Yes he was better in 85/86, but thats natural progression. He was 24-25 then.

The reason he won in 82 was that the fields were weak, 83 was a good tactical race and it was set up for him not being too fast. 84 was a true miler's race and he was found wanting because it was so fast, and the prelims were more demanding.

It's a nonsense to claim that so and so would win a race by putting his form back retrospectively. Cram hadn't done anything approaching Coe's LA performance up to that point in his career. What Cram did later is irrelevant.

middle distance wrote:

The guy also said he was there and has never seen anyone before or since run faster. That means live in the stadium. He probably wasn't in Oslo when Cram run and the sensation of watching speed on tv isn't the same.

That is my point that - he wasn't there.

middle distance wrote:

Due to his illness he was behind everyone else with his training that year; not having had a full winter (only started training with kids at Haringey in the Jan). He was always playing catch up to be ready in time, so had no choice but to take the risk to train in the US for 3 weeks solid prior to Games, which meant he went without races. It's not hard to grasp that it wasn't the perfect build up for him.

Inadvertently was!

Mate, I make an off the cuff remark and about two races and you bring up a litany of races.Come on, Deano!

middle distance wrote:

He wasn't at full stretch over the entire last lap as Cram was in Oslo.

ooops to you

cram's last 400, 27.5 then 25.5

Why is the finish only the last 100? who says? when coe runs faster for the last 100 - "coe was marginally faster"when cram runs faster for the last 200 and 400 - their times are "also very similar"you are so biased, you can't see things objectively.cram's first 3 laps were faster and his last lap was faster

middle distance wrote:

NO, he wasn't running faster at the FINISH, which is what you originally said. The finish to a race is the last 100m. Coe was marginally faster in the homestraight, by 0.2. Their last 200m and 400m times are also very similar. Coe's last 800m was substantially faster.

Read Cram's book leading. Missed a heap of traning in two years. In 83, he wasn't in best shape. He won a slow race.

His 85 was way better than in 83 and 84. ask cruz.