What makes genetically gifted runners fast?

Furious D wrote:

great running economy, a runner like bekele just flows, this cant be learnt

Yes but not in the way you think. 'Running Economy' to many people means they look smooth and flowing. We all know lots of runners who look like gazelles but are complete duffers. Likewise there's those Zatopeks who always look like they're about to collapse with limbs all over the place - but they make it work where it counts. See also Jim Furyks golf swing. The answer is genes coding for favorable biomechanics, both internal (VO2 max etc.) and actual body structure.

ciego no más wrote:

VO2Max, hemocrit count, mitochondria levels and size.

WRONG. They only make small parts of the big picture.

Furious D wrote:

great running economy, a runner like bekele just flows, this cant be learnt

Yes it can.

Practice is what makes the fastest runners fast. Huge amounts of practice.

It starts when you are very young.

But you have to use it, or you lose it.

nightline wrote:

So many genetic factors: muscle composition by twitch type, body proportion torso length versus leg length, thigh versus calf length, muscle attachment points to the bones creating longer levers, hip/knee/ankle alignment...

So its more efficient to have a long thigh and short calf?

tensile strength in the muscle attachment to tendons, tensile strength of attachment of tendons to bone. high VO2 Max, high HR max, mental toughness (or stubborness), high pain tolerance, high lactic acid threshold, ability to buffer and tollerate high levels of lactic acid, the mitochondria, ability for quick muscle contractions (ie higly developed nerve junctions at muscle synapses), good ratio of fast and slow twitch muscle fibers, highley developed circulatory system.

You're missing out the important stuff there.

Oh God, wellnow is off again reading from his Physiology textbook.

Think we ought to stop this now before it develops into something ridiculous.

A guy who knows stuff wrote:

justcurious wrote:

SO the mutation has no effect on elites? strange. so, it has very little relevance to performance? or can it just be overcome through training?

i also find it curious that the mutation is almost twice as common in african-americans.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/pmc/articles/PMC2491983/

An enzymatic deficiency is still a deficiency.. This article explains that other aspects of ones physiology can "compensate."

Basically, this "world-class white athlete" isn't really hindered by the fact that he has the mutation, BUT it certainly doesn't help. So, the theory is: the higher frequency of the allele in the african population is one of many factor that allow the east africans to run faster than non-africans.

Yeah, the subject had a higher v02 max which evidently compensated for the mutation. The v02 max is generally considered to be improvable through base training, am i correct? In other words, improvement of vo2 max is the goal of base training, or am i confused?

Do you really lose it or just have to learn it again?

What is the cutoff in time to be considered naturally gifted? 4:12 in the mile?

good question... i would hope the latter i suppose

21questions wrote:

What is the cutoff in time to be considered naturally gifted? 4:12 in the mile?

oh, you're a funny one! thank you for your contributions. goodbye.

21questions wrote:

What is the cutoff in time to be considered naturally gifted? 4:12 in the mile?

you contribute nothing to these boards. GG

weIInow wrote:

You're missing out the important stuff there.

wellnow, no one really asked about training. Read the thread title again:

"What makes genetically gifted runners fast?"

I will answer for you since I know your stance already:

wellnow says: 'there is no such thing as physical talent, therefore, I do accept the premise of the question (that some runners are more "genetically gifted" than others). It is all a matter of confidence and correct training.'

Did I get that right for you? If yes, just say so, and I saved you some time.

(oh and by the way, did you see Grete Waitz' "quote of the day" ?? She was "NEVER confident" that she would win. "never." So much for you confidence theory)

the worst part is, no way to really determine your baseline?

weIInow wrote:

Practice is what makes the fastest runners fast. Huge amounts of practice.

It starts when you are very young.

But you have to use it, or you lose it.

You could put a group of young runners on exactly the same training and some would be better or improve more quickly than others.

Most long distance runners don't have the basic speed to compete at the elite level, whatever training they did to improve it; the same with VO2 max etc