Merckx, Roche or Armstrong?

Stephen Roche, best fat guy ever to ride a bike! That guy has more chins than the Shanghai phone book.

Kelly, the question shouldn't be who is greater Lance or Hodgie-san. From the sentiment on this board it's clear they are equals.

The question should be: how much greater would Lance be if he eschewed the heart rate monitor and started training like a Luddite old-schooler?

Skinny, if that's the real Bob Roll, then he knows a helluva lot more about cycling than you ever will. Trust me.

If the real Laurent Jalabert, Sean Kelly, Tony Rominger and Martin Earley are posting here I'm a Dutchman.

Een goede dag verder!

Sean, no marathoner's prayer but how about a LetsRun Creed?

I believe in Malmo, the Old-Schooler almighty,

creator of hard training and mileage.

I believe in Hodgie-san, who ran 2:10 at Nike-OTC.

He was conceived by the power of 10 miles every morning

and 5 miles every evening.

He suffered under Greg Meyer,

was dropped, died, and was buried.

He descended to the Greater Lowell Road Runners.

In the 21st century he rose again.

He ascended into the Internet,

and is seated beside the keyboard of Malmo.

He will come again to judge altitude training and heart rate monitors.

I believe in the early 80s,

the Elliot Lounge,

the mailman who ran 2:13,

the forgiveness of taking winstrol,

the resurrection of the GBTC,

and the 25-mile marathon everlasting. Amen.

No offense to the Christians among us.

Down goes Ullrich...

Mr. Roll, excellent prayer, but in Italy we still say mass in Latin...and for all of you who question my ability to climb out there, what is it to you if I do not desire to change my beautiful muscle tone by cycling up those long, arduous mountains in the south of France? Have you ever seen how beautiful I am? I am Super Mario (and Dirty Mario) THE LION KING! Millions of men desire to have intercourse with my wife! I am the most attractive man in cycling, women want me, and men want to be me! I willa goa ona to a wina my 43rd Giro stage anext yeara, making ME the greatest rider in Giro history!

Bob,

That was gold. Pure gold.

Just because they rode in less adverse conditions doesn't mean they were good, just willing to suffer more. And you can't tell me that by the early 70's at least most of the roads weren't paved. I stand by my statement saying that eddy's competition were comparibly slower than lance's comptetion today.

Q

If you read my response to you, you would have seen that I said, in a new paragraph. I thought the toughest riders in the Tour rode before paved roads and derailleurs. I said nothing about the 70's.

Eddy Merckx is considered to be the greatest Belgian sportsman of all time. He is the only Belgian athlete who was voted world sportsman of the year three times (1969, 1971 and 1974). His nickname was "the cannibal", because of his eagerness to win every race.

As a little boy he admired Stan Ockers, another famous Belgian cyclist. Merckx's career began in 1961 (juniors) and ended in 1978. His record of achievements is still unmatched. Merckx was a complete cyclist. He was skilled in classics as well as in tours. He was not only an excellent sprinter but also an outstanding climber. Neither time trials or velodrome racing presented him with any problem.

Eddy Merckx won 445 races at the highest level. He won his first important title in 1964 as amateur world champion. He became a professional cyclist in 1965. In 1966 he won the Milan-San Remo classic, his first important victory as a profesional. He won this race seven times (1966, 1967, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1975 and 1976). He was world champion three times (1967, 1971 and 1974).

Eddy Merckx won the Tour de France five times between 1969 and 1974, not participating in 1973. He won 34 Tour races, which is still a record. He wore the yellow jersey on 96 days. Merckx also recorded five wins in the Tour of Italy (1968, 1970, 1972, 1973 en 1974). He was able to wear the competition's pink jersey on 76 days. He also won other Tours such as the Tour of Spain (1973), the Tour of Switzerland (1974) and the Tour of Belgium (twice) in 1970 and 1971.

In 1972 Merckx added the one-hour world record to his name. It lasted for more than one decade and it wasn't broken until new types of aerodynamic bicycles came into use in the eigthies.

Merckx was also succesful in classic races. He won the Paris-Roubaix race three times (1968, 1970, and 1973), the Liège-Bastogne-Liège race five times, the "flèche wallonne" (Tour of Wallonia) three times and the Tour of Flanders twice. He also won victories in other races such as Paris-Nice, Ghent-Ghent, Ghent-Wevelgem, the Tour of Lombardy, the Tour of Sardinia and the Grand Prix of the Nations. He was champion of Belgium once in 1970.

With this record of success in a rather tough sport, Eddy Merckx was honoured many times. He won the Belgian Trophy of Sports Merit (1967), which one can only win once. Between 1969 and 1974 he was Belgian sportsman of the year six times. Sports journalists elected him Belgian Sportsman of the century.

In 1996 King Albert II accorded Eddy Merckx the Olympic Order in the name of the International Olympic Committee for his contribution to the development of cycling. Already chevalier of the Order of Leopold, Eddy Merckx was awarded the title of baron in the same year. Also in 1996 a sculpture was erected beside the Toulouse-Bayonne highway to honour the heroes of the Tour de France. Eddy Merckx is shown wearing the yellow jersey, as he triumphantly reaches the finishing line.

Eddy Merckx to the Rescue!

By Bob Roll

The greatest bike racer of all time.

I love riding my bike no handed as we used to brag about as children. If you couldn't ride no handed, man you just didn't cut it. Even today after half a million miles on bicycles, riding without my hands reminds me of the joys of first learning to ride a bike and then becoming competent in the eyes of my peers.

I never thought riding no handed would ever get me in any trouble, except of course if an unexpected crosswind knocked me on my keister. Well so far, no crosswind has been strong enough. But when I raced and trained in Belgium, getting into trouble was quite easy.

One day while training in between absurdly hard spring classics, I was rolling down the bridge over the Leie Canal and the rain started to piss down. I went for my rain jacket in my jersey's back pocket and put it on, necessitating both hands off the bars. After I got the rain jacket on, I left my hands off the bars, enjoying the last few moments of dry shorts.

Buuurrreeeeyyy?Suddenly the goofy sirens of the Belgian Rijswacht (highway patrol) came flying up behind me from out of nowhere. I thought somebody just wrecked their Citroën deux chevaux up the road and was surprised when the cop car slide to a screeching halt in front of me.

Two flabby Belgian red-in-the-face storm troopers jumped out of the car and tried to tackle me as I tried to go around them. "What the hell is your problem"? I asked, trying to remember if I had broken any of ten thousand traffic laws.

"Papers," said fat copper #1. I said "sorry." "Oh and auch and chat verdome. No papers"?! They couldn't believe it. I said I never carry my passport while training in Belgium because it will get ruined in the rain or lost out of my pocket.

"Hoch and such and millardejoee," they said cursing like lunatics. "Name"?! They asked. "Bob Roll," I said, "and why did you pull me over and interrupt my training"?

"You must NOT RIDE NO HANDS IN BELGIUM"! they said. "B_ _ _ _ _ _t"! I said. "Ohh hoch auch"! they said. "You must come with us." "Why"? I asked. "To prove who you are and pay five-thousand Bfrancs fine," they said.

'"Are you crazy? Five-thousand Bfrancs"?!, I screeched, beginning to seriously panic as I was very unwilling to pay $200 for riding no handed. "What kind of fascist philistines are you"?, I asked in quick California surfer drawl so they might not catch the derogatory bits.

They caught it all and grabbed for my bike. "Wait"! I yelled in real panic with rising adrenaline and testosterone secretions that have been known to lead to unfortunate happenstance.

In one last desperate act to avoid any further escalation of hostility, I blurted out "Call Eddy Merckx"! Eddy was making our bikes and the team and I had lunch with him the day before. Merckx's name is akin to calling the Pope in Rome. The cops froze in their tracks. They gave me a long, cold look and I pointed to the EM logo on my jersey and they returned to their car. They got on their radio, and about three minutes later, just drove away. "Ahhh! What a relief."

The next time I saw Eddy, I asked if the cops called him from the bridge over the Leie Canal. He said, "Oh yes they did." "What did you tell them"? I asked. "Oh, I said the pros have a special law whereby they can ride no hands," he said.

I realized then that Eddy Merckx is more than the greatest bike racer off all time, he is also a great guy.

Q,

His main rivals could hardly be called duck eggs though with names like Luis Ocana, Joop Zoetemelk, Lucien Van Impe, Bernard Thevenet, Felice Gimondi, Roger De Vlaemink, Barry Hoban and others around Eddy was never likely to have an easy time of it.

Eddy is clearly the best ever. And one hell of a guy.

The question remains, will we see Armstrong step it up or not? Can he even win Paris-Roubaix? The World Championships? If Armstrong wants his place among the immortals of the sport, like Roche and Eddy, he's going to have to do more than win one bike race per year.

Mario, when can we go see Fidelio again?

Bob,

This is where you are completely wrong. LA most definately already has his place among the mortals of the sport.

First of all, he wins more than one race a year. In particular, he usually wins his TdF tune-up stage race while riding only to "support" some other USPS rider. Furthermore, if you win the only one that truly matters, what difference do the other ones make?

Secondly, from now on, NO cyclist is going to be expected to win everything. The sport has changed and, as all sports do, it has become more specialized. To say that LA needs to win the Paris-Roubaix or Leige to prove his dominance as a cyclist is like saying that today's football players have to play both offence and defence to be considered the greatest ever, because that's what the great players back in the day did.

If he wins 6 tours, I think you will find very few people disputing the fact that LA will have become the greatest rider ever. But for now, you definately lump LA in there with Anquitil, Indurain, Merckx, Hinault and myself.

Tony

Whether that is Bob Roll or not, interests me not. It was a dumb post, period.

it is really impossible to win the world champs and the giro and the vuelta in the same year. The competition is too tough. Asking Lance to ride the spring classics, the worlds, the vuelta, the giro would be like asking Khannouchi to run the world cross, the Golden League, World 1/2, Great North, Peachtree, Stramilano, azalea trail run, castelbuono, falmouth at the expense of London and Chicago. Why? Lance and Khalid are the smartest most talented men in endurance sports(el guerrouj is awesome too). They run for prestige, fast times and lots of $$. End of story. I'm a little basque freak, who's best suited to the classics, but I ride the big tours because that's what I really want to win. OK

Joseba, wouldn?t it be great to see Lance try though? He?s clearly the best tour rider ever, I?d like to see him in the classics.

The difference between KK and Armstrong is that KK would have no chance at a race like World Cross, even if he neglected Chicago and London altogether. Armstrong, on the other hand, could win the great classics and might even have enough left to claim the TDF too!

Skinny, I agree, it?s sort of a dumb post. But I thought it'd be nice to get some cycling discussion on here instead of the incessant Malmo/Hodgiesan LoveIn that usually pervades this board.