I Just decided, I want to be a professional runner.

Master of Disaster, I'm not going to sit here and lie to you. Mental agility is half the battle - sometimes more.

Master of Disaster wrote:

- honesty usually isn't nice for those THAT can't take it.

- typically, people THAT say "i want to be pro" or "i want to be elite" are the biggest assholes more involved with the drama and excitement of the running scene than the actual work.

- those THAT are silent and humble with natural born talent and a strong work ethic rise to the top. so, shut up because you've already shown us what you really are.

Williams (D3) got a guy named Neal Holtschulte a few years back. He MAY have run 9:35 in high school, maybe a bit slower, and he won D3 XC nationals as a senior. Brian Sell was something like a 10:10 2 miler in hs and ran 2:10 or 2:11 and made the Olympic team in the marathon. So, there's no way of telling whether you can be a pro. But just know that there are a lot of people already ahead of you, so you have to not only outwork them but also train intelligently and consistently.

There's a bunch of kids out there just like you. You shouldn't set a goal of "I want to be a professional runner" right away. Then you just come off as a jerk. You should try to set a tough but reachable shorter term goal, and if you accomplish that you then gradually raise your expectations. You must have a great deal of talent in terms of responding to training, and you might reach a limit too soon even if your training is perfect. But there's nothing wrong with trying to be the best you can be at a reasonable age, and you'll never know if you don't try.

Yeah if you don't train in HS and run decent times, you will improve a lot in college.If our 9:35 guy has been running 30mpw during track, takes the summer off, and has 52sec 400m speed, his chances of developing into a 13:30 runner are a lot better than if he has been doing 90wpw and runs 58s for the 400m. It also helps if your maturing later than your peers.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

Williams (D3) got a guy named Neal Holtschulte a few years back. He MAY have run 9:35 in high school, maybe a bit slower, and he won D3 XC nationals as a senior. Brian Sell was something like a 10:10 2 miler in hs and ran 2:10 or 2:11 and made the Olympic team in the marathon. So, there's no way of telling whether you can be a pro. But just know that there are a lot of people already ahead of you, so you have to not only outwork them but also train intelligently and consistently.

Your 18 and your pr is 9:35?

If you have been running for a few years injury free and you have only run 9:35, my advice would be to not even think about attempting to run for a living.

The chances of you running <13:00 are about 0. You should not waste your tim with this effort and try something other sport.

so basically, you just want people to support you and make you feel good about yourself and your dream to do the impossible, is that right? The only runners who used to be not very good in high school that turned out to be great 5k runners had barely done any training when they ran those times. If you are already training 2 hours a day and only managed a 9:35 2 mile, you have absolutely no chance to run a 13:00 5k. You have to have unbelievable levels of talent to do that, levels that very, very few people in the world possess. You sound like a f***ing little kid who is not very good at sports but still wants to grow up to be a pro baseball player. Maybe when you win a state championship or run over a minute faster than your current 2 mile pr you can start to think about MAYBE continuing your running career after college, but doing it now just makes you look like a complete joke.

Start doubling every day and get in 2 hours of running (in two runs) as many days a week as you can. Do not run your easy days hard. Do do strides. Do two tempo runs a week. Be patient and you will improve, most likely not to super fast in the 5k but maybe 10k and up.

And don't talk to people about how you want to be a pro.

Hodge,

I was going to say 'if you want to see an example of someone going from 9:30 to best in the world, read Bill Rodgers logs'. At least one year (and soon more..???) on Hodge's website.

my way seems to be working really well for me. i doubt i'm the one with the problem.

okay, but what about wrote:

Master of Disaster, I'm not going to sit here and lie to you. Mental agility is half the battle - sometimes more.

Master of Disaster wrote:

- honesty usually isn't nice for those THAT can't take it.

- typically, people THAT say "i want to be pro" or "i want to be elite" are the biggest assholes more involved with the drama and excitement of the running scene than the actual work.

- those THAT are silent and humble with natural born talent and a strong work ethic rise to the top. so, shut up because you've already shown us what you really are.

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

Williams (D3) got a guy named Neal Holtschulte a few years back. He MAY have run 9:35 in high school, maybe a bit slower, and he won D3 XC nationals as a senior. Brian Sell was something like a 10:10 2 miler in hs and ran 2:10 or 2:11 and made the Olympic team in the marathon. So, there's no way of telling whether you can be a pro. But just know that there are a lot of people already ahead of you, so you have to not only outwork them but also train intelligently and consistently.

Brian Sell was likely much faster than a 10:10 two-miler, but didn't put the training in to know that as a prep. Shawn Found was another example that "didn't break 10:00" in high school but went on to run 28:33/2:18 and was 4th at the 2000 Olympic trials in the 10k. I have it on good authority that he didn't train much in high school. And people always love to bring up Olympian and eight-time national cross-country champ Pat Porter with his 9:50ish in high school. Nevermind that that was at 6000' above sea level and he probably did very little training as a prep.

As to the guy who got a full-ride with a 9:30, man, you kids don't know how lucky you have it with the Internet and all of this dissemination of knowledge. I ran 9:30 at 5,500' above sea level with just a year of running under my belt, and not many miles, and I hardly attracted any attention. Didn't know any better back then, with regard to more volume or getting in contact with coaches. Should've had better guidance from my high school coach in both regards I suppose. Run for enjoyment, run for self-improvement, and run to be part of something bigger than yourself, but, by God, if you can use running as leverage to earn a useful degree (emphasis on useful), you'd be a fool not to take it. Everyone wants to be a professional runner. Probably 1% of 1% actually make it.

I've never told anyone in my entire life that I wanted to go pro(except on a anonymous forum). And I just recently started running 2-3hrs a day. I'm not asking any one to support me, it isn't one of those "hey kids, looks at me trying to go sub 4:00 in the 1500m" threads.

It's simply for advice on becoming an elite. Let's say for example you wanted to become a pilot. As a child you might want to take lot's of vitamin A to help eyesight (you need great vision, 20/20 or better?). I'm looking for my Vitamin A in becoming a great athlete.

I got a full ride as a 9:30 2 miler so I assume you're speaking about me.

First of all that was in the 1990's, long before my family ever got the internet. I agree that kids have an advantage in the internet era (access to information, instant results, up close and personal to elites and peers). But that had nothing to do with my 9:30 and full ride. Sorry to correct your mistake.

Second, 9:30 could get a full ride to almost any d2 school that is willing to give a full scholarship. Lots of d2 schools are limited on money so they tend to split the money rather than give it all to one kid. I got lucky and my university just graduated the majority of their scholarship athletes. So i was able to get a full and several other guys got partials in a rebuilding type of year. My 9:30 quickly turned in to top 10 at our regional xc meet as a freshman the following fall. And trust me, I wasn't that much better. So any 9:30 kid can be good in d2.

please, don't associate me with the internet high school generation. If you didn't get any attention with a 9:30 then apparently you were in a secluded area or the only running programs were high level schools who want faster guys. But don't mistake that for being the norm. I was in a major metropolitan area, finished all state in xc and track, and didn't get tons of attention...but from the local d2 and naia schools I received enough attention. Anybody at my level did. 9:30 kids get full rides to d2 schools all the time. You were the exception.

OP,

I say go for it. As young as you are, you've figured it out faster than most guys do. I would bet that MOST guys at your ability don't train all that hard in high schools. The ones who do are the ones you read about in national headlines going 8:50. So while they are "ahead", they've also used up more of their potential than you have.

It is way too early to know what you can and can't do 3 yrs from now, 6 years from now, 10 yrs from now, etc. But nothing says you can't set that goal and do everything to work toward it. That will provide a tremendous amount of direction for you. So I say go for it. But again, make sure you're a part of a program that is serious. Which means a 9:35 guy would probably have to walk on. There is no school out there that won't allow a 9:35 guy to walk on. You'd be able to go anywhere, just not for money right away. The potential is unlimited.

I wasn't meaning to project anything on to you with that "you kids..." comment. I was referencing THIS generation of runners. You and I both came up devoid of information in an era that didn't emphasize volume. And the point I was ultimately and universally trying to make was that if, as an athlete today, a kid has a chance to get his/her education paid for by way of running and get a chance at the comaradiere as a bonus, he/she'd be an idiot not to take it. I'm still a little dumbstruck that a 9:30 could get a full-ride anywhere anymore, but maybe I'm just that much out of the loop.

Different strokes for different folks. Perhaps this kid could spend a few years not going to college and running full-time and seeing where it takes him. If he just doesn't possess the talent, then on to college a little bit later, and perhaps he could still run D2 or D3. But pursuing running full-time is putting all of one's eggs in one's very tiny, very fragile basket. For most, running is a means to an end, hopefully with some personal accolades, good relationships, and a solid education along the way. Maybe an Olympic Trials appearance. And if you're the John Elway of your sport, well then...

To the OP:

Realize also that being a "professional runner" and running under 13:10 like you mentioned are not necessarily the same things. There have been hundreds, maybe thousands of men and women by now, in America, who have gotten a shoe contract (which confirms you as a professional) in the last 50 years.

If you can run sub-28:45 and sub-13:50 on the track consistently, and perform consistently well on the roads at all distances, you could be a professional. You could maybe earn enough along with another job to support yourself until you stop. That qualifies as being a professional.

Running 13:00-flat or faster is a whole different level. Unfortunately talent is one of the things that governs whether this is possible.

Look at the Americans who have run sub-13:00 and you will see that they were nearly all HS Champions of the nation (not just near the top, but THE TOP), NCAA champions and later USATF National Champions. Some of them in multiple events or disciplines. That is the kind of talent you need to reach the level of best all-time.

My best advice is to understand your own talent as early as possible and plan your next ten years around that. Most runners live delusional lives (I did). I wish I was more honest with myself. I was a 4.20 miler in high school and a 3.45 guy in college, but sort of knew in the back of my mind I would never make a living at it. I had this idea in my head all through college that I was really a 3.38 runner who just needed a larger base and the right coaching. If you know enough about the sport and your body you should be able to tell pretty early in college whether or not you're professional caliber. Just be honest with yourself and don't expect too much or too little.

mythoughtss wrote:

My best advice is to understand your own talent as early as possible and plan your next ten years around that. Most runners live delusional lives (I did). I wish I was more honest with myself. I was a 4.20 miler in high school and a 3.45 guy in college, but sort of knew in the back of my mind I would never make a living at it. I had this idea in my head all through college that I was really a 3.38 runner who just needed a larger base and the right coaching. If you know enough about the sport and your body you should be able to tell pretty early in college whether or not you're professional caliber. Just be honest with yourself and don't expect too much or too little.

The type of advice I was looking for. Honest yet not completely negative. This thread is turning out to be very helpful. And if someday I DO get to that level of competitiveness I will certainly resurrect this thread.

Thanks! :)

I agree and a division 1 school would be the best option. I to to one of the top high schools in the U.S. for running (The Woodlands High School in Houston, TX). I didn't even start running until my freshman year and I only ran Track. I ran a 4:46 mile, 2:03 for 800m and 10:24 for 2miles. I have a lot of guys on the team to look up to and run with that are state and even a couple national hs elites. They push me in every workout and my times in races show from it. My 4:46 mile was just good enough for 5th on the jv team. It might be tough to run with a lot of guys who ate really good but you will improve. You could also try focusing on just one event like me. Idont even run cross country. I ran a 5k a couple weeks ago and was around 18:00, but I've already ran a new mile pr of 4:42 in a time trial and it's not even track season yet. So, I would say that specific event training is a very good idea.

As far as following your dream goes I say don't stop. The odds are against you, but it can be done. It's just not likely. A guy that ran at my school who graduated in 2004 was a state xc champ and 1600m state champ as a sophomore and by the time he was a senior ran 8:52 for 3200m 4:09 1600m 1:54 800m and 14:45 xc 5k at foot locker. He has already graduated at Universit of Texas and his times were better but nowhere near pro. He ran 3:44 for 1500m 14:27 5000m 4:05 indoor mile. He ran against Leonel Manzano in high school and was better at the mile too. It mainly comes down to talent and potential once you get to college. Like I said it's not impossible, just not likely unless you have great talent. The best 5k runners in the U.S. are solid milers. It's just a suggestion but stay away from cross country for the time being and train specifically for the 800m and mile. Once you've got a good mile time then work your way up, because you can't run 13min for a 5k unless you run at least a 4:00 mile. You may need sub 4:00. A good example of short distance runners doing this is Nick Symmonds from Oregon. He runs a great 800m and that's his event. He doesn't even train the longer distances. He ran a 4:00 at the 5th avenue mile which is very good. So, if you train hard and have the talent to run a 4:00mile in the next four to six years you'll know if you have what it takes to be pro. Without the 4:00mile there's no chance.