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Oy Gevalt wrote:
dyestatloser#44 wrote:I agree that it is very strange to go up to altitude to aid recovery. The mountaineering adage isn't to climb low and sleep high. Hmmmm.
Of course it is strange. If a European or American - or Arab - did this, the clowns engaging in their spine-cracking reasoning to make sense of KB's move would be screaming about doping or things looking "suspicious" or what have you. The long flights involved in a short period don't make sense for recovery. Simply look at Jos Hermens and the controversy surrounding him when he was a competitor, never mind the "rumours" about Kostre and his alleged approval of "win at all costs" methods etc. Who knows? All anyone can be sure of is the fact that anyone who thinks all of the East Africans are clean is an idiot.
What makes sense to me are the "rumours" that you're a retard.
Ethiopian athletes, if you knew any, like to spend as much time in Ethiopia as possible because of the confidence it gives them. When it's doable, they'll go right back home and guess what? There's a one hour time zone difference from Brussels to Addis. Not so bad. And I know you think Addis Ababa is this mecca of advanced technology but the fact is it lags just a little behind a few cities in Europe, Asia, America and Australasia in terms of technological capabilities.
I know Jos took drugs during his career. He's said so. But if you think that means the more than 120 different people represented by Global Sports Communications are all cheaters, you are a complete retard. Tell me one thing you know about Woldemeskel that isn't baseless?
For those of you who don't understand why on earth Bekele wouldn't just stay at the meet hotel in Brussels, or at St. Mortiz if he wanted altitude, instead of flying home, get this: every Ethiopian knows a lot about their own history, mythical and factual. Every Ethiopian in the world knows that they were the only African nation to remain independent during the Scramble for Africa and the only ones to defeat the European imperialists (First Italo-Abyssinian War). This is an immense source of pride for Ethiopians and they believe fully that the many of the reasons that they were able to do this are tied to the land where they call home and the food they eat. It's like a diamond: once you pull it out of the hot, compressed earth, the diamond starts to break back down into simple graphite. It needs those conditions in order to maintain its structure, and Ethiopian athletes have a similar belief about their homeland.
Ethiopia was known to the Egyptians as the Land of Punt, or "God's Land" and this mindset has stuck with Ethiopians into modern times. But the idea that there's some magical PED available in Addis and not in Europe or that Addis is like going to the Moon to avoid testers is just ridiculous. Lots of places in Europe are visa-only access so institutionalized doping programs can receive word about incoming testers. But you get your "visa" at the airport in Addis. It doesn't even compare.
on the runs wrote:
Lots of places in Europe are visa-only access
Name one.
If he was doping wouldn't he have a supply to take with him?
The Viren comparison is ridiculous. Viren ran crap between Olympics and Bekele doesn't
Contrary to what some idiots here think, its not genetics if you take an EA away from altitude their performance suffers. Our runners are crap (relatively) because most don't train enough at altitude or they train at altitude alone or with other runners of a similar standard to themselves.
I’m not impressed by that self congratulatory attitude on the front page about the NZ athlete either. Every half decent runner has been accused of drugs here. If you throw enough stones one is bound to hit the target!
Until an elite level Ethiopian fails a test stop looking for excuses for losing & naff off
They already did fail tests and have been warned by the IAAF.
Strange simultaneous dropping out of a husband/wife combo and then the terrible overall performance in Berlin (besides Bekele).
When has Defar not been able to outkick a couple of Kenyans on the last lap, bouncing away with a smile on her face, like she didn't even run? There was a smile on my face, I can tell you.
Now the IAAF need to grow a pair and take the PR hit.
For most nationalities, Russia.
Stop right there, trollism. That's a complete fabrication and you know it.
Defar was sick in Berlin and everyone who knew anyone on the Ethiopian team knew about it, including the AFP:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iPXvH0Q2yfvNFc5Yaj10IKDSe8XQ
Injuries happen. If you trained at a high level, you would know that. Dibaba's Achilles flared back up just before Berlin and she was a possible entrant up until the last minute.
I've read enough of your posts to know that what you purport as plausible facts are really baseless conspiracy theories. You bring up Woldemeskel Kostre's name and his degrees in physiology as some sort of evidence of wrong doing, or the fact that he went to university in Budapest during the Cold War. I'm sure he's sorry he didn't wait until the fall of the Berlin Wall to begin his advanced education. And you somehow try to associate every Ethiopian medalist with Jos Hermens when in fact many, such as Defar and Dibaba, have never had any sort of relationship with him, ever.
I would recommend that you keep yourself within the realm of reality when writing anything not labeled as fiction, and if you're going to make an accusation, cite some supporting evidence, like this:
Kostre educated in Hungary
http://www.time.com/time/europe/roadtoathens/preview/rivals.html
Defar/Dibaba absent from the Jos Hermens' group:
http://www.globalsportscommunication.nl/athletes_womenevents_en.asp
Defar ill in Berlin
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iPXvH0Q2yfvNFc5Yaj10IKDSe8XQ
Dibaba day to day on competing
http://in.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idINIndia-41759820090814
on the runs wrote:
For most nationalities, Russia.
And now please name the world class endurance athletes that train in Russia.
Did you miss the point of my statement?
I suggested that it would perhaps be slightly easier to avoid testing if you were located in a country which required a visa for entry, countering claims that Ethiopians scurry off to Addis Ababa to avoid testers. Russia is a country whcih requires visas for entry for all but a handful of nationalities.
Why hasn't anyone acknowledged that rested or not, sleeping at home or in a hotel, sleeping and training at altitude or at see level, being with his smoking hot wife or being alone, Bekele can win and beat all comers, even with jetlag from a 14 hour flight.
[quote]RRRR wrote:
Agreed...everyone wants to make excuses for KB. C'mon guys, the trip makes no sense unless he has access to something in Ethiopia that he doesn't have in Europe. And don't say it's his family. quote]
Why can't I say it's his family. I travel a lot and not seeing the family for a long time sucks. I would fly home too.
I understood your point entirely. It's valid enough too, but if you're making an argument your credibility is enhanced if stick to facts rather than trying to exaggerate. The statement that "lots" of European countries require visa entry was clearly an exaggeration which really didn't do your (entirely reasonable) argument any good.
Oh shut the f*** up. If bekele was an AMERICAN WHITE CAUCASIAN male distance runner, your phony ass will be defending him of all these accusations instead of accusing him. As well as all the other 70% white male viewers who attend this site on a regular day basis. But not everyone because some people on this board are not hung up on race. And don't even try to pull that reverse racists bs either, you know its true. Webb and Ritz suddenly go to Uncle Sal? Who's next? I mean he's doing something to these athletes abilities that they haven't displayed in years. If you want credibility, start looking at some of your great white hypes (I mean hopes) with the same amount of scrutiny bitch.
jamesfranco wrote:
It could be nefarious and it could be innocent. I, for one, am tired of the endless doping speculation, it takes all the fun out of the damn sport. Sometimes you fly back home so you can dope to the gills, sometimes you fly back home because you want a break from the rat race. Who the f*** knows why Bekele did it and what is the point in speculating?
AMEN to this post. Perfectly sums up my feeling regarding the endless speculations of runners doping on these boards. It really is sucking the enjoyment of following professional track and field.
Please assume KB is innocent and is just the greatest god-given talent we have seen in distance running.
I saw the comment about altitude training for 4 days on the front page. There's no benefit from returning to altitude for a measly four days. We all know that, he knows that, Hermens knows that, and the brojos know that (which made me question why they'd write it on the front page). But really now, returning home for 4 days and taking a few shots of something is not going to totally revive you either. Sorry, but doping of any kind (outside of putting in mre blood) takes time to have its effects. He probably just wants to get home and sleep with that amazingly gorgeous wife he has.
knower of facts wrote:
I understood your point entirely. It's valid enough too, but if you're making an argument your credibility is enhanced if stick to facts rather than trying to exaggerate. The statement that "lots" of European countries require visa entry was clearly an exaggeration which really didn't do your (entirely reasonable) argument any good.
I didn't claim that "lots of European countries" required visas. I wrote that "lots of places in Europe are visa-only" and Russia's a big country. Belarus requires visas for many nationalities, too, though not as extensively as Russia.
Commix wrote:
jamesfranco wrote:It could be nefarious and it could be innocent. I, for one, am tired of the endless doping speculation, it takes all the fun out of the damn sport. Sometimes you fly back home so you can dope to the gills, sometimes you fly back home because you want a break from the rat race. Who the f*** knows why Bekele did it and what is the point in speculating?
AMEN to this post. Perfectly sums up my feeling regarding the endless speculations of runners doping on these boards. It really is sucking the enjoyment of following professional track and field.
Please assume KB is innocent and is just the greatest god-given talent we have seen in distance running.
Unfortunately, that's not going to happen because in their minds he's already on something. It doesn't matter how consistently he runs. He could have a death in the family and I bet you some low vile scumbag on this message board will find a way to link him with doping. And even if he is, you have to be completely naive just to consider him and other East Africans and not any American distance runners. Especially the ones in Uncle Sal's group.
butbut wrote:
Why hasn't anyone acknowledged that rested or not, sleeping at home or in a hotel, sleeping and training at altitude or at see level, being with his smoking hot wife or being alone, Bekele can win and beat all comers, even with jetlag from a 14 hour flight.
You don't get jet lag from crossing one time zone.
'They already did fail tests and have been warned by the IAAF.'
Where is your evidence for this. I don't mean some idiot posting bull on the internet
If the IAAF are so keen of EA's winning why have they dropped the word cross to once every 2 years?
No. They're not that keen on them winning, but a load of public positive tests for Ethiopia will cause ripples among the fanboys (like you) and cause many people to become disillusioned with the sport.
It's the same with Caribbean nations. Cover up after cover up.
(and a quick rush to catch a Moroccan or Russian, because nobody likes them anyway.)
Why didn't we see clean sweeps of super sprinting Ethiopians like normal this time? We saw drop outs and also-rans instead, as well as an 'ill' Defar. Is that the same 'ill' that's stopping Ceplak from running anywhere near like she did?
