It has been tried by a fair number for runners
There are succesful 400/800 runners but not that many
The 44.5 - 45.5 runner would have a massive incentive to step up to 800m and be among the best at 800m if it was so easy. There is a reason that most don't try it!
Another reason is that a lot of 400 runners are 100/200 runners stepping up and consider the 400 to be pushing their limit
ukathleticscoach wrote:
It has been tried by a fair number for runners
OK wise guy. Name some runners that were world class in one of the distances and made a serious attempt at the other distance.
Harold Schmidt ran 44.92, 47.48, 1.44.83 for 400, 400IM, and 800.
Park Burner wrote:
Harold Schmidt ran 44.92, 47.48, 1.44.83 for 400, 400IM, and 800.
Sounds like he was rather successful at both. However Mr. UKathleticsloser over here has made a blanket statement that it has been unsuccessfully attempted by several athletes and then can't even name any.
John Davids out of San Clemente ran 44.22, 48.28, and 1:43.98, so a lot more successful than the other guy. Though I'll agree it is rare
Here's T&F News top times list for 2008 for the 400, 400H, 800, and 1500.
None of the top 40 runners in either the 400 and 400H are in the top 40 in the 800. 3 in the top 20 of the 1500 are in the top 20 of the 800.
no way can he do it wrote:
Merritt gained too much muscle once he started juicing. Even if he slimmed down, it doesn't mean he could run a good 800. Most 400 hurdle guys who've run the 800 haven't actually done all that well. There's been a few, very few, who've run well in the two lapper, but the 400H and 800 are very different races.
Yeah, I noticed how buffed out he'd gotten in a short period. There are a lot of factors involved to be world class in one 'type' of running like sprinting, a lot of things have to fall into place just as they have to in middle distance running. The odds on having everything dovetail so that an individual could compete successfully in both areas must be staggering. Harold Schmid was a superb all around runner, Juantorena was supreme. Merritt? No way. He'd lose muscle and speed or at least the strength to run under 44.3 or so if he were off the juice, never mind his 200m results showing he's probably geared for sprinting and nothing else on the track.
To anyone discounting a 400 guy with developed musculature--like Lashawn Merrit, having a chance to run a great 800, do some googling for the great Cuban champion 'El Caballo'...Alberto Juantorena. They didn't liken him to a horse for nothing. He won both the 400 and 800 at the 1976 Olympics, running 1:43:50 and three days later, 44:26. That's 33 years ago!...and those times hold up pretty dag-gone well today. I do agree with others here that Coe and Kipketer both deserve plenty of respect. Two of my favorite runners ever. Thoroughbreds both.
Great discussion! I'd sure love to see Wariner and Merrit give it a go at 800 someday. And on the women's side, what do you think Allyson Felix could do in an 800. She sure has the speed, along with an effortless beautiful stride.
Firstly, Alberto Juantorena is far less muscular than Merritt, but he is big for an 800 meter runner.
Secondly, it seems like you guys who say this can't be done are discounting the fact that it ISN'T done often. That's for a reason. Do you really think that you know more about track than innumerable professional coaches?
The half mile takes aerobic capacity that most 400 runners don't have, if you've ever run a 400, you'd know what I'm talking about--I've never seen anyone die in a race due to lack of aerobic training. It's all muscles--and you nitpickers know what I mean when I say that whether you want to admit it or not.
edwardss wrote:
John Davids out of San Clemente ran 44.22, 48.28, and 1:43.98, so a lot more successful than the other guy
eh ?
is this a wheelchair guy ?
i get a rough estimate that for a 400m guy running 800 as a secondary event, the improved aerobic background for 400 is worth ~ 1/4 of any improvement made on an already solid 800pb - but you obviously are going to lose intrinsic speed if trying 800
i'll throw it out there :
if a 44.00 guy can run say, 1'46.0 off that & then tries to do more 800 training, he is likely to lose intrinsic speed ( by slimming down, doing more aerobic work, etc ) & for argument's sake he loses 0.25s over 400m due to it ( so "nominally" drifts out to 44.25 )
however, if he finds he has improved his 800m as a result of the training by say, 1.5s to 1'44.5, then proposal is his improved 400m due to better aerobics woud be
~0.25 * 1.5 = 0.375s
his 400m time woud therefore be
44.00 + 0.25 - 0.375 = 43.88
Sounds like he was rather successful at both. However Mr. UKathleticsloser over here has made a blanket statement that it has been unsuccessfully attempted by several athletes and then can't even name any.[/quote]
I do have other things to do!
Michael Blackwood
400 Metres 44.60 Madrid
800 Metres 1:48.36 Boston (BU)
edwardss wrote:
John Davids out of San Clemente ran 44.22, 48.28, and 1:43.98, so a lot more successful than the other guy. Though I'll agree it is rare
I don't need to even look at any record books to know that no-one called John Davids has ever run a 44.22 400m. Where did you get this from??
I'd rather see if he could run a sub 10.00 100m.
If you could set a new world record simply by adding more distance to your training and running a longer event; wouldn't you do it?
It's not as easy as some here might think.
David Grindley
400 44.47
800 1:52.7
Kris Akabusi
400 44.93
800 1:48.2
400H 47.82
Andrew Steele
400 44.94
800 1:58.4
Martyn Rooney
400 44.60
800 1:50.55
Robert Tobin
400 45.01
800 1:53.6
I'm almost positive that Steele has run faster than that.
There's a number of 400 guys who've run 1:48-1:51 type times.
Link:http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=14026
Best known performances - Andrew Steel
Event PB 1999 2001 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
100 10.69 10.98 10.69 11.14 10.88
200 21.11 21.73 21.37 21.11 21.48 21.28
400 44.94 51.55 48.62 46.36 46.21 45.31 44.94
400L 45.28 46.2 45.84 45.28
800 1:58.4 2:02.54 1:58.4 1:59.74
Are you thinking of Martin Steele a 1:43 guy?
'There's a number of 400 guys who've run 1:48-1:51 type times'
Probably is, the point being that you would expect a 44/45 guy to go a lot faster, or at least some people here do
Mechagodzilla vs. the UKathleticscoach
Looks like UKathleticscoach has used his actualfacts beam to immobilize our hero. Stay tuned.
Erica Moore baby!
53 for 400
56 for 400 hurdles
former heptathlete
now 2:00 800m runner who recently won USA indoors.
and she has the double H factor: hot and humble