best runner of all time

hexman wrote:

My take on these recurrent "best" runner posts is simple: whoever holds the drug-free, certified world record at the time the question was asked is the greatest runner ever to run the distance. All of the other stuff (including the Olympic titles) is cool, can't be taken away, and will probably get you laid, but doesn't really compare to being the fastest person to ever cover a distance.

You're assuming a hell of a lot there. Would today's athletes run as well under the conditions of yesteryear? Consider this:

a) Peter Snell ran his 1:44.3 WR on a 365-yard grass track. It may still be the WR for a non-synthetic track. (If this was the T&FN board, I'd get an immediate fact-check, but I know it stood as such until at least 1976.)

b) Walter George ran his 4:12 WR on a 3 laps to the mile track with square corners, where "the sub-layer of gravel was exposed in places and at other points the poorly distributed cinders gave way under the feet of the runners".

c) How fast would Alberto Salazar have run the marathon had he competed on flat-as-a-pancake courses like Chicago or Berlin, with modern sports drinks and rabbits?

Runners aren't that much better now than they used to be. We just put a lot more effort into letting them run fast, with all the amenities (and drugs) they need.

I agree that I am assuming a hell of a lot, but any conjecture based on what might have happened if this or that....

Let me put it this way: Runners of yesteryear don't compare to runners of today. This is not simply because the shoes are better and the tracks are faster; today's runners are a whole lot faster under any circumstances. I don't mean to diminish the accomplishments of anybody's favorite runner, so let me use Seb Coe (one of my favorite runners as an example). Coe ran the fastest 1500 of the 1970s, and he ultimately ran a 3:29 lifetime P.R. That is fast, but it doesn't put him near the "best" times of today. His personal best is 55th on the all-time list.

He is still one of my favorites, he was one of (if not)the "best" of his time, much can be learned from him and his training, but he is not any longer one of the "best" 1500 meter runners ever--sorry. If I counted right, he's the 13th BEST 1500 meter runner ever.

Check out this link. The BEST runners of all time are those who appear at the top of their respective lists.

me

You really have to take into account the entire picture of an athlete's career and not just time. Times will get faster as that is the natural progression of things. I agree that runners are faster today but we shouldn't penalize athletes of the past since sports medicine, exercise science, money, etc. are much more advanced now.

You could argue that Seb Coe is better than El G since he has Olympic gold, something Hicham has failed to win. Herb Elliot was a gold medalist and undefeated during his brief career therefore, making him better than both, right?

Comparing athletes solely on time also dilutes the definition of "best". That's like saying Jamal Lewis is a greater running back than Jim Brown since Lewis once had 295 yards rushing in a single game and Brown didn't. Was Wilt Chamberlain a better player than Michael Jordan since "The Stilt" rang up 100 points one night and the best MJ could muster was 63? Who is the greater marathoner, two time Olympic champ Abebe Bikila or Alan Culpepper? (Afterall, Culpepper has run faster.) In another arena, who is the better writer, Ernest Hemingway or Jackie Collins? (Ms. Collins has sold more books and they've been made into TV mini-series.)

Reserve titles like "the best" and "greatness" for athletes who have had stellar CAREERS rather than a handful of fast times. Otherwise, the greatest runner title is nothing more than the flavor-of-the-month.

You can't compare the different eras without problems. You can only look at the stopwatch as the final judge. However, it is true that today, we have to take drugs into account. There probably hasn't been anyone clean in terms of WR's in the 5 and 10 for at least a decade. So some more cynical people may want to look at pre and post EPO. Yes, it's been around for awhile, but it wasn't until cycling coaches and a few other unscrupulous souls dove into track that it became the final arbiter of podium placement.

YEs you can

I believe that soon enough it will be Bekele without a doubt. He will shatter the world 5k and 10k records, win atleast 3 more double cross country championships, and I would like to see him on the roads breaking some records also. In 3-4 years time there will be no doubt.

Is this still a topic on letsrun ?