this is really irrelevant....because webb ran 2 secs faster in HS
this is really irrelevant....because webb ran 2 secs faster in HS
That was outside
Webb ran 3:59 or so inside not even close to the collegiate record
*shouldn't have to even say this
I ran on the SD track and the old Sunkist track. That 11 laps is much tougher than running on the new 8 lap, nicely surfaced tracks (yeah, I've run on those in masters races). Waldrop was doing some of the same things as German. He ran a 3:56.4 that same year indoors all alone, I think he won by more 10 seconds, besides having some good competitive races as well. Waldrop wasn't much into competition however, he didn't like pressure and he was more worried about getting into Med School, which he did. German is going to run at least 3:51 outdoors this season. He's showing the way, other Americans need to set their goals higher. Part of the reason for improvement over the years is runners have to shoot for faster and faster targets, which a lot of runners in the West stopped doing as the sport tailed off in popularity in the late 80's, never mind seeing large numbers of Africans not worried about barriers and running lots of fast times.
Waldrop: small track and hand time
German: solo effort, wins by 10 seconds
This might be irrelevant because German can easily lower this record. Get him in a real race with some competition and he runs 3:54 or faster.
Not quite.Waldrop has a PhD. He may have shared classes with medical students, however, he was never a medical student.
Almost 50 wrote:
I ran on the SD track and the old Sunkist track. That 11 laps is much tougher than running on the new 8 lap, nicely surfaced tracks (yeah, I've run on those in masters races). Waldrop was doing some of the same things as German. He ran a 3:56.4 that same year indoors all alone, I think he won by more 10 seconds, besides having some good competitive races as well. Waldrop wasn't much into competition however, he didn't like pressure and he was more worried about getting into Med School, which he did. German is going to run at least 3:51 outdoors this season. He's showing the way, other Americans need to set their goals higher. Part of the reason for improvement over the years is runners have to shoot for faster and faster targets, which a lot of runners in the West stopped doing as the sport tailed off in popularity in the late 80's, never mind seeing large numbers of Africans not worried about barriers and running lots of fast times.
Neither Fernandez nor Waldrop has the college indoor mile record in my opinion. That record belongs to Don Paige who ran 3:54.22 FAT on 2/16/80. It was on an oversized track (an advantage) but I believe the track was not banked (an offsetting disadvantage).
For German to have the unquestioned college indoor mile record, he needs to run sub 3:54.
Paige's 3:54 was on a banked track.
itsmorecomplicated wrote:
Neither Fernandez nor Waldrop has the college indoor mile record in my opinion. That record belongs to Don Paige who ran 3:54.22 FAT on 2/16/80. It was on an oversized track (an advantage) but I believe the track was not banked (an offsetting disadvantage).
For German to have the unquestioned college indoor mile record, he needs to run sub 3:54.
Just thought about this. The reason people add time to hand timed results is that the thought goes that it takes time to see the smoke and start the watch....But think of the finish. It takes time to see the person hit the line and then hit the watch----thereby making the time slower. This could therefore negate the slow start time and make it even. Just a thought, anyone got a thought on this?
thank god for you letsrun kid geniuses, because us dumb old fvckers have never thought of this before - jesus 30 years of doing this wrong - thank god you kids are here to save us!
You don't add time to HT races under 800m. HT is not acceptable for any races below 800m and no time would count if not timed electronically.
.24 is the accepted coversion, ADDED to the ROUNDED had time.
So, Waldrop might have run 3:54.91 HT, which rounds up to 3:55.0, which would then be converted to 3:55.24 (END OF DISCUSSION).
And, German's time was probably not hand timed for official purposes. There is no rule mandating HT in case of FAT failure, that's a myth and a lie. If FAT fails to get a start signal the race is recalled.
So, this is the same thing we dealt with a few weeks ago. German ran a faster time, but as a performance, it's probably slightly weaker than Waldrop. (Just like Rupp ran faster, but Padilla's mark is more absurd)
(there have been several studies that show that HT produces marks .14 to .45 seconds slower than FAT ACTUAL TIMES. That's just a fact, there's a delay between the gunsmoke and the hand, and there's a delay between the crossing of the line and the hand. The second factor is eliminated by someone good at anticipating, but nonetheless, there's error)
Let's say they were fighting for a last provisional qualifying spot to go to NCAA's (and track size was not a factor). I think Fernandez would be in and Waldrop out.
A couple of points. The above is not true, as Waldrop would get in due to indexing advantage. Secondly, I believe the hand time conversion to auto time for seeding purposes is .14 for events that start at the finish line and is longer than 400 meters.
Third, it is apples and oranges to compare Waldrop's run on an 11 lap to the mile track compared to the 8 laps to the mile track (note indexing of tracks used by the NCAA).
That being said, Fernandez's two runs are truly impressive. Waldrop was very good, but not in the same class. My recollection was that he had some very good indoor races, but was not able to produce similar impressive results outdoors. But then, the fog has been rolling in quickly on my memories.
Good enough outdoors to set the still standing American Collegiate record.
(AmC) 3:53.2 Tony Waldrop (North Carolina) Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 4/27/74
Yes, here's the thought:
You don't react at the finish, you anticipate. Someone who trains themselves to react will in fact get a more "accurate" time but since the standard is to add to that to convert, it's really a penalty for the athlete being timed.
Test yourself against a lynx sometime. If you're a good timer, you'll see a very standard difference between your times and the lynx times.
"There is no rule mandating HT in case of FAT failure, that's a myth and a lie. If FAT fails to get a start signal the race is recalled."
What happens if FAT fails in the middle of the race or has a malfunction at the end?
Will the race not have results?
I don't know about official rules or how it has been practiced but it seems like a pretty bad idea not to have official hand timers for every race.
So three hours after he runs the maybe/maybe-not CR, he runs 7:57.71. Ignore the fact that his first 2k was in 5:27.09 and his last 1k was in 2:30.62, a huge negative split. Ignore the doubling aspect. Just consider the change to the US junior list:
7:47.8+ Jim Ryun (Kans) 05/13/66
7:49.16 Galen Rupp (Ore) 07/17/05
7:57.71i German Fernandez (OkSt) 03/01/09
7:58.0 Gerry Lindgren (WaSt) 07/05/65
7:58.1+ Jeff Nelson (CaHS) 05/06/79
7:58.40i Gabe Jennings (Stan) 02/14/98
7:58.4+ ----Lindgren 07/10/65
7:59.46 ----Jennings 03/14/98
7:59.7i+ ----Lindgren (SpokAC) 01/30/65
7:59.83+ ----Fernandez (CaHS) 06/20/08
8:00.8i+ Steve Prefontaine (Ore) 01/31/70
who the heck cares....
German will obviously smash 3:55 altogether over the next few years...
and more than likely, it will not be as a college runner
get real people wrote:
who the heck cares....
German will obviously smash 3:55 altogether over the next few years...
Plus Fernandez ran 7:47 a few weeks ago. I know, I know, 'overs-zed track', but it was 3000m nonetheless, indoors, in February, and he reportly was feeling under the weather.
What a damn talent!
toro wrote:
"There is no rule mandating HT in case of FAT failure, that's a myth and a lie. If FAT fails to get a start signal the race is recalled."
What happens if FAT fails in the middle of the race or has a malfunction at the end?
Will the race not have results?
I don't know about official rules or how it has been practiced but it seems like a pretty bad idea not to have official hand timers for every race.
Rule 5-12.4
"Hand times must be rounded using Rule 4-12.2c (rounded up to nearest 10th) before adding a conversion factor. The conversion factor of .24 seconds between fully automatic timing(FAT) and manual timing (MT) must be used when conversions are desired. (i.e., MT + .24 - FAT). In championships meets, .24 shall be used in all events to determine seed times."
Rule 5-12.5
"In the event that fully automatic timing is not available in one or more of several heats or sections, the following procedure shall apply: Hand times must be used for all heats or sections to determine advancement or final placings, or heats or sections are to be rerun."
Rule 5-12.3f
"An alternate finish-line crew shall operate to judge and provide manually operated timing results to supplement the FAT system." (This is in regards to the championships equipment which also includes 3 FAT systems.)