The year after Amby won Boston the field topped 1,000 for the first time. I wonder how many people in the world aspired to run marathons then. How many now?
McVeigh said, "Bet the field." The field is now the big, big world.
Of course there is a big, big paycheck now.
Tom
To the person that posed as Amby Burfoot, please stop posting as me. Not sure what drove you to do that.
gear junkie wrote:
This is great data , thanks !
Just like in Perfect Mile , it gives some idea of certain era and workout techniques .
Obviously we all can laugh today but back then this was all people knew, and still were able to run respectable results .
It makes me wonder - when people train with all these errors but still reach their goals , what is the factor that erases mistakes ?
Aerobic development.
I have no way of knowing whether the real Mr. Burfoot is posting on this thread. But I do know that he wrote a cover story for RW in the summer of '92 about how Africans were genetically superior runners and would win every male Olympic gold medal that year.
Cacho and Baumann didn't get the memo and I suspect Ryan Hall will be similarly undeterred.
The article also predicted that the mapping of the human genome would prove the existence of the hypothesized genetic differences. Hasn't happened.
Given this background, the slant of his comments about Hall at Boston should come as no surprise.
Inmmy day runners ran to win! Times were not as important as they seem to be to many on the sidelines now. We had the advantage that the sport was recreation and not a profession and wins were sometimes there for the lesser runner to go after. I did not have the sucess in Boston that a number of posters had but my coach did teach our club that even though we were living in that great wasteland to the north, we could run with anyone. As Bruce Kidd said at Coach Fred Foots funeral in 2002, "even when the best sport teams set their sights no further than city or provincial championships, Fred talked about racing against--and beating--the world" Bruce went to Compton at age 18 and beat the existing Olympic 5K Champion in a time that had not yet been run on this continent. A winner can not be intimidated by anything. Gerry Lindgren knew that too.
Team tactics have been used in Boston from neary the very beginning of the race. It started with Canadian runners from Hamilton in 1900 when there was betting on the race between Hamiltonians and Bostonians.
In my day it was the Japanese runners who took it to anyone who dared to challenge them. In 1965, 5 Japanese runners took on defending champion Aurele Vandendriessche allowing him 4th place. The first four that year broke the course record. The next year, 4 different Japanese runners raked Norm Higgins over the coals in the run of "the scout master and his troop". The Japanese took turns running away from Norm but knowing Norm, he was not intimidated. Coach Igloi would not allow him to be. I am sure that he gave all he had on that day in an effort to win. I would also bet that Norm's training was a lot different than that of his Japanese opponents.
It is going to be great fun watching Ryan Hall forget all this, rely on his training and go for the win.
Never got any response from the last post you threw out there. How about this scenario , Ritz stands on the line in London, what do you think will go through his mind, maybe "will anyone see the piss leaking down my leg"?? You need to get back to smelling the coffee if you think he is not already thinking less then first place. 2:08 is the new 2:11. Hall is an unreal runner for sure, but he has to be able to overhaul the insurmountable depth of the African nations, might be kinda hard to do. My 2 cents...
HRE wrote:
Why do nationalities matter? If you're a 2:09 guy standing on the line along with ten 2:07-2:08 guys, where ever they're from, I can see where you might think you're in deep do-do, though I can also see where you'd think that this is your chance to get dragged along to the performance of a lifetime. But if you're a 2:07 guy who also has recently run 2:09 on a very hot day and whose training has gone better than it ever has before standing on the line with that same bunch why would you not be thinking along Hodgie's lines?
Of course it's going to be hard to do. Joe McVeigh said it best. The field is always the best bet. But any African who wins will also have to overhaul the insurmountable depth of the African nations.
Joseph McVeigh wrote:
if you have a choice between "one guy" and "the field", it's safer to bet "the field" no matter who the guy is.
.
some exceptions:
Tiger Woods when rolling,
Bekele,
Geb,
Aouita,
Morcelli,
ElG,
Just to name a few who were better bets than "the field"
gear junkie wrote:
This is great data , thanks !
Just like in Perfect Mile , it gives some idea of certain era and workout techniques .
Obviously we all can laugh today but back then this was all people knew, and still were able to run respectable results .
It makes me wonder - when people train with all these errors but still reach their goals , what is the factor that erases mistakes ?
Who says there were errors? Maybe we need to get away from all the bullshit and just build strength with the miles? Maybe what worked for Amby won't work for Hall? Maybe today's runners need to stop being entertained by doctors, scientists, chiropractors, masseuses, needle pushers, sports psychologists, nutritionists, etc and just go out and run.
I'm not sure that registering my name proves anything, but I admire those who have done so, and so I'll do the same. (Though I'm not sure if I succeeded or not.)
To those who have mentioned my 1992 RW mag article, "White Men Can't Run," thanks for remembering it. I was wrong in 1992, but you might want to check the Beijing 2008 men's running results. Then answer this question: Which way is the pendulum swinging?
As I've said before, I consider Ryan Hall and Terrence Mahon incredibly smart in their approach to Hall's training and racing. (I've interviewed both of them on a number of occasions.] This includes their mental approach, which I consider an important factor in the marathon.
One of the things that makes them so smart, in my opinion, is that they're realists. They understand where Ryan stands now, and what it will take for him to climb higher. They don't underestimate the odds, nor are they intimidated by them.
I applaud the path Hall and Mahon are following, and root hard for Ryan whenever he races, even though we journalists aren't supposed to do that. But Ryan's an incredibly talented, hard-working, and humble guy. What's not to root for?
The previous poster was not me.
I don't know why he did that.
Just run baby.
Given the choice between a random African 2:06 marathoner and Hall, why would the African have a better chance of winning? You're quote makes it seem like he has a less then 1% chance of winning-I think he wins Boston more then 1 out of 100 times the race is run (even if he is white).
Hall has shown in the past that he is an emotional runner who thrives on going for the win. Boston should provide all the adreneline he needs.
Test for the real Real Amby
You interviewed Nina in a backyard a few summers ago at the Jessie Kelley race. Name one (or more) of the famous waterbearers that year.
pessimist wrote:
Given the choice between a random African 2:06 marathoner and Hall, why would the African have a better chance of winning? You're quote makes it seem like he has a less then 1% chance of winning-I think he wins Boston more then 1 out of 100 times the race is run (even if he is white).
Hall has shown in the past that he is an emotional runner who thrives on going for the win. Boston should provide all the adreneline he needs.
Unfortunately for your belief, the marathon isn't an adrenaline sport, it's a conditioning and fuel-management event. Great that Hall is even better shape than he was going into Beijing, he should be. Yet that doesn't mean that Merga, Cheriyuot(s), and the rest aren't also in much better shape than they were in August of last year.
OrvilleAtkins wrote:
Inmmy day runners ran to win! Times were not as important as they seem to be to many on the sidelines now. We had the advantage that the sport was recreation and not a profession and wins were sometimes there for the lesser runner to go after. I did not have the sucess in Boston that a number of posters had but my coach did teach our club that even though we were living in that great wasteland to the north, we could run with anyone. As Bruce Kidd said at Coach Fred Foots funeral in 2002, "even when the best sport teams set their sights no further than city or provincial championships, Fred talked about racing against--and beating--the world" Bruce went to Compton at age 18 and beat the existing Olympic 5K Champion in a time that had not yet been run on this continent. A winner can not be intimidated by anything. Gerry Lindgren knew that too.
Team tactics have been used in Boston from neary the very beginning of the race. It started with Canadian runners from Hamilton in 1900 when there was betting on the race between Hamiltonians and Bostonians.
In my day it was the Japanese runners who took it to anyone who dared to challenge them. In 1965, 5 Japanese runners took on defending champion Aurele Vandendriessche allowing him 4th place. The first four that year broke the course record. The next year, 4 different Japanese runners raked Norm Higgins over the coals in the run of "the scout master and his troop". The Japanese took turns running away from Norm but knowing Norm, he was not intimidated. Coach Igloi would not allow him to be. I am sure that he gave all he had on that day in an effort to win. I would also bet that Norm's training was a lot different than that of his Japanese opponents.
It is going to be great fun watching Ryan Hall forget all this, rely on his training and go for the win.
I second Orville. I went to the annual meeting of Japan Running Academy last spring. They had a panel discussion with Hideki Kita (a 2:10 guy), Hanada (ran 10000 at Atlanta Olympics), Sachiko Yamashita (who coached Ozaki who won Tokyo women's marathon last November) and Akio Usami (you know who he is, Amby). Coach Hanada said that, when you look at times, you get intimidated. But on championship race, you have the advantage if you did everything right and run your best while others make mistakes... As many experts on this message board repeatedly pointed out, Japanese are not very fast. But they can still win medals in Olympics and world championships. As Arthur Lydiard always said; it's not the best runner who wins, but the best prepared. If you have what it takes and do everything right, in most cases, 7 out of 10 favorites will make mistakes and you can be up there. That's pretty much, as far as I'm concerned, what Deena did in 2004 Olympic marathon. On paper, she shouldn't have been up there. To win the gold medal, or to win Boston, is like getting hit by a falling satelite, as coach Nakamura used to say. But, if you consider everything; where it (satelite) is, where it starts to fall, how fast it's falling, etc..., you may actually be very close to getting hit. After all, that's what's fun about competition, isn't it? Just to see who's fastest or who's a better runner, all you need to do is the see the list. But the result will almost always wouldn't come out that way. Some of the recent Fukuoka marathons had attracted some very fast Kenyans like Korir. They almost always never perform up to par. I know Boston's different because it's almost like Kenyans' home-turf (wonder why... The undulating course? Tradition? ...); but there's always the unknown in the actual competition. Otherwise, Hodgie-san should have never finished third in 1979! ;o)
Hodgie-san: I'm coming to Boston this year...with the person whom you dropped from the pay-roll!!! :-D
Nobby wrote:
Otherwise, Hodgie-san should have never finished third in 1979! ;o)
Hodgie-san: I'm coming to Boston this year...with the person whom you dropped from the pay-roll!!! :-D
Didn't we have that comfrontatiton last year and just barely survive? And you're going to risk it again?
Nice quoting. Is there a point?
For the very obtuse, clearly none at all.
[quote]Amby Burfoot wrote:
As I've said before, I consider Ryan Hall and Terrence Mahon incredibly smart in their approach to Hall's training and racing. (I've interviewed both of them on a number of occasions.] This includes their mental approach, which I consider an important factor in the marathon.
One of the things that makes them so smart, in my opinion, is that they're realists. They understand where Ryan stands now, and what it will take for him to climb higher. They don't underestimate the odds, nor are they intimidated by them.
[quote]
Interesting Amby, no doubt about their intelligence. What struck me in the article and other quotes I have seen from Ryan is his balance. He gets what is important in life and shows the maturity of an experienced runner.
This athlete has faith in his abilities and focus, and that is for real.
Belief.