Rupp @ Washington indoor meet: 1:51 and 4:10 with a kick

Barbosa did the same thing in his senior year of high school. Mind you he wasn't a NCAA Champ, Olympian or 4:01 miler.

that's pretty good for galen rupp to outkick steve sherer and tim bayley in a mile race. can't forget steve shere's kick last year indoors when he ran sub-4 and then later 3:36? i'd say rupp's speed is looking pretty good this early on, although i think he takes a reverse approach to speed as i think he focuses more on it indoors before focusing more on specific endurance for the 5 ans 10k. he's probably in 7:50 3k shape right now. that's two 3:55 1500's back to back, like running two 4:12 1600's back to back, without the extra 200m. some people might say he just ran 4:10, so how could he run that pace back to back, but he also ran the 800 first. i say rupp finishes around 7:50 in his next 3k.

trialswatcher wrote:

Rupp ran 4:01.x in HS 4 years ago+, any guy who could run 4:01.x , could surely run 1:52.00 or better,look it up. I am surprised at all the hype on this,1:51.33 on a oversized track, is this that big a deal?

Rupp ran almost 4 minutes years ago.

I think this theory works well for 800/ mile types, but you are referring to a 10K specialist so the theory is out the window. I guarantee salazar wasn't touching 1:51 indoors or outdoors, but he was a helluva competitor at 5K and up. That's why this is impressive for Rupp. First race of the indoor season, and possibly first 800 meter race in 5 or more years of strength oriented training?

Has Steve Magness run 1:51?

Magness ran 1:52.x and split 2:56 I believe for 1200 in HS.Fastest HS 1200M split I had ever heard of.

king, good to see the mrr wars back. although often over optimistic, mrr does often have a point in that fast finishes do seem to predict faster pr's in the near future. we've seen a lot of breakthroughs for rupp in the last year and so even though 4:10 is not a fast mile at this level and 1:51 is not a fast 800 for these guys, the 1:55 close and the 1:51 for a guy who's never run faster at 800 do indicate that he'll finally break 4 this year.

King -You\'ve never given Galen an ounce of credit for anything he\'s done. Of course you\'ll refer me to one of your posts that gives him a backhanded compliment and use that to show how magnanimous you are and that you really don\'t have anything against him.While I won\'t jump on Mrr82\'s bandwagon and say that Galen could run significantly faster, I will say that this early winter performance is absolutely meaningful. I find it significant that one of our 10km Olympians ran a relatively fast 800m (what are the PRs at 800m for our other top 10km runners?) and followed it up by beating a 3:56 guy not too long afterward. I certainly don\'t know what Sherer\'s training has been like, but I do recall that he ran that 3:56 in Seattle last winter; he might be in pretty good shape right now as well. To say that Galen won only because Sherer didn't know he was there is ludicrous. It's as if you're taking Mrr82's point of view with the idea that Sherer certainly could have/would have run faster if he'd only seen the kid coming. "It is what it is;" Rupp beat (out kicked or whatever) a 3:56 guy. While that doesn't make him a 3:56 guy, it does indicate a modicum of fitness over the shorter (than 10km) distance. Yes, I watched the video; the first guy to finish was Rupp, with Sherer just behind. "It is what it is."King, you\'ve been one of the greatest Galen bashers of the young man\'s career; maybe you could let it go and admit that the kid - despite the training advantages and any other advantages (real or imagined) - might just be pretty damned good. Yes, I know - as you\'ll certainly point out - that, until NCAA Cross this fall, he\'d never won a National Title. I\'ll just say that, despite his lack of National Championships, most guys would consider his career far better than that of, say, Kenny Cormier. Oh yeah, Kenny won Footlocker.So, King, give it a rest. He\'s good. He\'s an Olympian. Jeremy Zagorski\'s not. Even if Jeremy had an underwater treadmill he wouldn\'t be an Olympian. And I\'m relatively sure that Jeremy was a hard worker, and he\'s probably a pretty good human being. I\'ll be here all week. Don\'t forget to tip your waiter.

It's been years since I consistenly posted on here, but having lurked fairly regularly but limiting myself to posts on races results/season outlooks for athletes, I have been SHOCKED to see how much Rupp-bashing there is out there. And what's even more surprising is how, even with limited attention to LR posts/posters, even *I* know there's a guy with an ax to grind against Rupp.

If we bashed every Olympian like this, it would be a sad indictment of the message board. Thankfully there are many with reason still posting here.

On a side note, 13th in the Olympic finals at age 22 is comparable, on the surface, to Todd Williams' 10th in Barcelona at age 23. With the depth of distance running today, I think matching Williams' international performances (in terms of placing; times would have to improve from Twill's) would be a good outcome, with some potential upside based on the possibility that Rupp has more speed--yet to be determined, as Williams was 4-flat, 8:15-ish at his best, and we don't know Rupp's level best.

Regardless, say Rupp tops out at 27:15. Let's say other Americans surpass him. Does that mean he deserves all the flak this board gives him? He still has to put in the work, make the sacrifices in social and personal level, and run the races. If he finds his limit, he finds his limit, and I hope he stays health enough to do so. He has my respect.

Thanks for posting the videos. Is the fast heat of the men's 3000 going up? Seems to be the only one not there.

rupp has a knack for winning close races? oh how one performance can change perceptions!

Hoovis 2 wrote:

Rupp won at the tape. Kid has a knack for doing that.

Hoovis

He beat Solinsky like that too. This is a great double for Rupp-a fast time then coming back with a good kick.

immaculate conception wrote:

rupp has a knack for winning close races? oh how one performance can change perceptions!

Hoovis 2 wrote:

Rupp won at the tape. Kid has a knack for doing that.

Hoovis

Nobody bashed Rupp, on this at all, Ramxc is overly sensitive to years of my only pointing out that all Rupp's best performances and there are MANY were dragged alonf efforts.

So ramxc makes a ridiculous comparison to a good HS runner I coached personally years ago for a total of 18 months.To try and cheap shot me and at same time a kid I coached, so be it.

On this matter, there is zero bashing going on at all. I just found it surprising that folks thought a guy who is approaching 4 minute talent would be that taxed to run 1:51.33.

Of course because of who said it, there is an inordinate amount of bullshit associated with what I may or may not have said.

RAMXC. as usual, you try and lump me in as a basher when my main issue entirely was with MRR of course extrapolationg this latest effort into some time never run.

He knows he does that all the time and so do others.

THAT IS THE POINT, no more no less, you want to cheap shot me and another kid I coached, good for you.

The "I will be be here all week" "Tip your waiter" remark I do not even get, that witty NW humor must get lost on us non metro Northeasterners.

Sounded a little light to me.

So be it, have at it.

I have never given "backhanded compliments" I ahve siad the same thing for years.

Rupp is a marvelous talent, and even lately if you have read what I actually said instead of half making shit up, you would see that I said, he is clearly the best out there in the U.S. , he dominated XC like he should as a 27;33 guy and should do amazing stuff.

No back peddling here, that is what I have said, go bother to look it up.

What I'm "overly sensitive" about is the constant subtle digging and begrudging of Rupp's ability and accomplishments. The kid is 22, has run at the World Champs and the Olympics, he's got the US Collegiate Record at 10km, the AJR at 5km & 10km - but none of this matters to you. It seems as if you wait for a thread about Rupp and then hijack it in a derogatory direction. (Of course, I could be wrong; it's really hard to believe that a grown man has nothing better to do than lurk on a message board and leap at every chance to grind his personal axe against Rupp/Salazar) As for his "being dragged along", if it's so easy, why is it that Galen has accomplished all those things I mentioned above while others have not?

Please don't come back with your smarmy response that you've given credit to Rupp, you acknowledge his ability, blah, blah, blah - because every time you do that you also throw in the subtle dig.

Example: "Rupp ran 4:01.x in HS 4 years ago+, any guy who could run 4:01.x , could surely run 1:52.00 or better,look it up. I am surprised at all the hype on this,1:51.33 on a oversized track, is this that big a deal?

Rupp ran almost 4 minutes years ago."

The implication is that he hasn't improved: "Rupp ran almost 4 minutes years ago." Yep, it's a fact that he did, but anyone who's ever read your stuff on Galen knows that your intent is to demean his performance with that last line.

Ridiculous? The petty jealousy you've displayed over the last six or seven years is what's ridiculous. You've ripped Rupp and Salazar regularly.

I simply pointed out that a "pretty good HS runner" hadn't achieved anywhere near what Rupp had - and opined that he couldn't even if he had the "advantages" Galen has. I made no attack on the young man's character; in fact, I mentioned that I imagined he was a hard worker and probably a pretty good guy - JUST LIKE RUPP IS!

I'll admit that mentioning the young man's name was probably a poor decision. I mean, we're dealing with a young man who is human and might have mis-interpreted my comments as a personal attack - despite the fact that I said he was probably a hard worker and probably a pretty good guy. Hmmm, I wonder if Rupp might have a similar reaction to some of the things posted about him over the years? Oh, heck, who cares? He's Galen Rupp and a public figure so I guess that gives King - and the other bashers - free reign to demean him on a regular basis.

Here we agree. Because it's YOU who said it - cowardly hiding behind a different screen name - there is rightfully a strong response to your personal vendetta; not just from me but from many who see through your subtle ripping of Galen/Alberto.

Again, we agree. You certainly do have issues with MRR; my issue lies in the fact that you take the opportunity to bring Galen into the fight. "Of course he ought to be able to run that fast; what's the big deal?" You may believe deep down that that statement doesn't denigrate Rupp's performance, but many folks on this board would disagree with you. I believe that the point of MRR's original post was to be positive and supportive that one of America's top young distance runners had done something positive. I don't necessarily agree that Galen can "certainly" run faster, but beating a 3:56 guy would seem to be a positive feather in the young man's cap.

No, that's not the point. Your posts always have a different overt meaning, but the constant theme is a just-slightly-below the surface nagging, digging, demeaning, rip at Rupp/Salazar. You've done it for years, and this current effort (here and on Dyestat) is another attempt to further your personal agenda in lessening Rupp's efforts/accomplishments.

My poor attempt at levity. It's a line often used be entertainers. Sorry to hear that you never get out of the house.

Yes, you've said the same thing for years: notably that others are clearly better because they've won this and that; that Rupp isn't really any good because of his advantages; that others (Bobby Curtis on the recent Dyestat thread) have a greater upside; that Galen won't improve very much as he's already trained at a high level, has the advantages, etc...; that he won't make it at the "next level" and so on and so on and so on.

What will it take for you to admit that you've been wrong about those things? He's clearly better than EVERY other kid in his HS class; yes, better than McDougal (Olympic Team trumps all other claims). He's the FASTEST EVER AMERICAN BORN COLLEGIAN at 10km. He was pretty good as a high schooler. He was pretty good as a Junior (28:15, 2nd at NCAAs in the 10km). He's been pretty good as a collegian (a few runnerup finishes, one title). He appears, by all accounts, to be ready to take the next step.

Why do you feel the need to point out Galen's "deficiencies" both here and on Dyestat? I could understand if it was just a once-in-awhile occurrence, but you're conspicuously silent when all is well in the Rupp camp - and then, BAM, at the first opportunity to bring him down you post in both places - and won't even use the same screen name, much less your real name. If you're confident in the impartiality of your posts, feel free to use your real name and location so that others in the running world might have an opportunity to have a rational discussion with you in real life.

Another subtle dig, preceded by a compliment. "He dominated XC like he should..." In other words, he gets no credit for his winning NCAAs because he's suppose to win. Of course, what you fail to admit is that he has broken through to another level - beyond all of his HS class and virtually all of the high schoolers in the few years surrounding his.

When will you admit that all of your predictions about Galen's lack of future success have been wrong? What does he have to do to please you? Win the 3km and 5km indoors? Win the 5km and 10km outdoors? Make three more Olympic teams? Break the American record at 10km? Or will he need to get the 5km and 3km also?

Will you ever post here and/or Dyestat and just flat out admit that you've been wrong? No subtle digs, no allusions to "advantages"... Just a simple admission that your previous judgements about Galen's progression were flat out wrong.

That's all I'm asking.

Dave Frank

I like pie.

meep meep wrote:

I like pie.

Yeah, me too.

Here in Oregon we've got marionberry pie. Hard to believe that we've got one named after the former mayor.

great post concerning rupp ramxc. He is a special talent that we should all cheer for.

Ramxc - You're completely correct about king/trialswatcher's attitude. Good luck changing it, though I'm sure it feels nice to vent.

First of all, no one rea;;y cares about my attitude at all.

If it inspires controversy and deabte , so be it.

What I have said is always entirely taken out of context and the method of infoprmation shariong of the Internet is easily misconstrued when it is hard to reflect emotion in what you say etc.

On this particular thread/issue which has gotten totally blwin out of proportion, once again my comments were in response to MRR, certainly did NOT trash Galen Rupp and here is what was meant, period, no othe r meaning.

That I was surprised that many folks thought it that big a deal that a close to 4 minute miler could run 1:51.33.

I have said for a long time, that anyone who can run 4 minutes or near in HS or otherwise, is probably either a 1:52.00 guy at least or an 8:40's low candidate.Plain and simple.

So when Rupp ran his seed time? It WAS his seed time, I was legitamtely surprised that many were that surprised, and that is it.

To make anything more of it, shows others' agendas, not mine , sorry.

I am not going to apologize for a posting style no more abrasive certainly than hundreds on here and also I only post my opinion, no one gives a shit really what I think.

I do not believe that I have ever bashed Salazar in any post I ever made that I know of, so ramxc's claim of that is pretty inaccurate I believe, I would like to see that post pointed out, and I will retract.

It's funny I think, that when I say how good Rupp is or will be it is a:

"Backhanded" "Disingenuous", but when I said he was a better time trialer than winner early on, that was bashing, when it was entirely accurate.

My last words on this, in the end it matters not what I think, only what is run .

pvk wrote:

great post concerning rupp ramxc. He is a special talent that we should all cheer for.

Before I address the above assertion, let me reiterate a couple points I have made over the years about Galen Rupp. From my vantage point, the objection to Rupp (and Salazar) is not about Rupp's abilities and certainly not about his character. The objection stems mostly from the "branding" tactics of the Nike Machine which seems to constantly--and desparately--try to sell long time fans like myself that Rupp is the "savior" of American distance running. To this end, the entire charade can seem at times like an infomercial for the ShamWow: Rupp ran in Germany so he's gotta be good! You getting this camera guy?

As to Rupp's double this past weekend, here is what I can say: it was a workout and not much more. I make this statement knowing that of the 12 athletes who beat Rupp in the Olympic 10K, only two of them have ever run indoors: Bekele and Geb. Salazar may be a lot of things, but he is not stupid. Rupp's weakness at the international level is his basic speed. His 3k PR is anywhere from 10 to 20 seconds slower than his competition's; his mile/1500 PR is 2-12 seconds slower. In fact, the only athlete with a slower 3k PR (Fabiano Naasi) has run both a 13:12 5K and a sub 60 half-marathon--all by the age of 23.

As a professional, American, collegiate athlete, Galen Rupp is a considerable talent with considerable access to the best facilities and coaches in the world. At an international athlete, he has a long, long way to go.