Has Nike's NXN ruined Footlocker National?

cmurph wrote:

what runners are in conflict with themselves and why?

Runner who end up having to choose between running at NTN and running at FLN. Guys like Ben Johnson last year- top returner from FLN '06, ran at NTN on '07 because he had to choose between his team qualifying for NTN and him qualifying for FLN.

A number of girls from NY and the NE over the last couple of years have had to make the same choice.

Having separate races for team and individual championships, and having separate qualifying races for those championships is just stupid. They're always going to be competing for at least a couple of people, so why not combine them?

old face andre wrote:

I'm glad someone used the word affluent. This has been my main problem with NXN: it's for the rich teams. How many schools, even after fundraising, really have the budget to send seven runners plus a coach to the regional meet, wherever it may be? A lot of teams just stay home. So you're left with the rich kids having the cash to run at NXN regionals and nationals.

Name me one single team who has been good enough to qualify, but didn't go to the regional meet. Go ahead, try it. Come up with one example of a team who stood a shot at qualifying and couldn't afford to go to their regional meet.

The schools don't pay for the kids to go, the kids hop in their parent's cars and they drive there. These aren't officially school teams, so why would the school pay for it?

What is the farthest a team has to drive to get to their regional meet? A few hours? There are 9 NXN regions.

How many times has money stopped an individual who had a shot at qualifying for FLN from going to their regional meet? There are only 4 of those, don't see too many big time runners skipping out on the footlocker regional races, and some of them have to go pretty damn far to get to their qualifier.

Give me a break with your classist BS.

old face andre wrote:

I'm glad someone used the word affluent. This has been my main problem with NXN: it's for the rich teams. How many schools, even after fundraising, really have the budget to send seven runners plus a coach to the regional meet, wherever it may be? A lot of teams just stay home. So you're left with the rich kids having the cash to run at NXN regionals and nationals.

How is Footlocker any better? Nike has 8 centrally located regionals while Footlocker has 4 regions. Do you realize how large the South region is? If you live in El Paso, Texas, you have to travel 1660 miles to race in Charlotte as oppossed to traveling half that distance to run in Los Angeles? A runner in Durango Colarodo travels almost 1400 miles to run at Footlocker but less than 500 to run at NXN. Footlocker's west region is even more ridiculous.

I am not apologist for Nike but NXN is simply a better meet. Everyone argument against it also applies to Footlocker. NXN did try to merge with Footlocker and FL was the problem. Things change.

Not sure how you can say NXN is for the kids form affluent areas or schools. NXN has created 9 regions which give many more people the opportunity to travel to a regional meet closer to them as opposed to FL which only has 4 regions and some have to travel much further distances for a chance to qualify.

Plus if you are a top individual on a borderline team, you can still go with your teammates and friends and try to qualify as a team and if your team doesn't make it you still have the opportunity to make it as an individual. FL kids just go it alone, either their team isn't very good or they just like being the star.

NXN is the better meet and experience in my opinion. Been to FL three times in the past 6 years with individuals, went to NXN this year for the first time with the team. NXN is better, period.

Footlocker. It has tradition. Who in the hell keeps saying XC isn't a team sport? Here you have Nike promoting a true national championship in a sport. Do they have it for any other sport? No, hell no. This is the closest there will ever be to a true national champion. Footlocker will be history in the next 3 years.

Cross country is a team event for sure, anyone who states otherwise is off base.

The one thing Nike has done positively is exploit the fact FL/Kinney never had a team competition (except for the regional combined scores).

I also understand Nike approached Footlocker to combine their events, FL declined the offer.

If FL/Kinney had thought ahead years ago & had provided the complete package (Individual plus Team competition), thus closing the door of any questioning of the concept/packaging, Nike at that point would then be redundant/unnecessary.

Now that the door has been left ajar by FL, I believe that NXN will take over, FL will go the way of the Dinosaurs.

Nike X Nationals should have remained Nike Team Nationals. That was the perfect combination. Also the stupid course they run at NXN's is not conducive to that many runners. It just a stupid idea and has not only ruined Footlocker, but has also ruined Nike Team Nationals

The new NXN's = 1.5/10

the rockets wrote:

Also the stupid course they run at NXN's is not conducive to that many runners.

The new NXN's = 1.5/10

It's f****ng cross country! Not track!

The course at NXN is stupid with those fake hills. Would be better if they actually had a decent course.

While I think Footlocker will soon be dead, I can honestly say that if I were a high schooler then I would rather run in San Diego than Portland any day.

Right now both are diluted (except FLN girls). It is a weak year compared to last year anyway and this dilutes it even more. There are kids in the south that have no business thinking they are one of the top 100 high school cross country runners let alone top 40.

Even the girls Foot Locker race is diluted. The depth in both races this weekend is horrible.

They ran the world xc championships at the Meadowlands in NJ in 1984, I think.

They also ran world xc at Franklin Park in Boston which is very flat, almost a cinder track.

If they can run worlds at a racetrack in NJ and at FP then they can run the HS nationals at a racetrack in OR.

As a person from the southeast region, the first years of regional meets were in Alabama. It would have been about a 14 to 16 hour drive from parts of Md and De. They moved it to NC and cut that basically in half.

My problem with NXN is that it is kind of making the state meets less meaningful. It used to be that a team winning their state championship was the biggest accomplishment, now it seems to be losing some of that feel. Lets be honest there are only about 30 to 40 teams that have realistic shots at NXN.

In which regions did the best teams not travel to regionals because they couldn't afford to? This idea that NXN is only for the privileged is a crock of sh*t. Do more affluent schools tend to do better at the high school level in x-country? Absolutely, but plenty of non-affluent schools have made the effort to travel to and compete at the regional meets. Name the really good teams that didn't compete at regionals. Name one team that could have finished in the top 20 in the U.S. that chose not to travel to regionals due to money.

I'm convinced that the NXN bashing would be much less if it were owned by Brooks or Asics. I can respect those that don't think there should be national championships for high school sports, but that opinion should include individuals. I do not understand why it's ok to have an individual national champion, but not a team champion. One more thing... what kind of logic is behind the statement that high school is about individuals, but not team? That's simply ridiculous.

nxnxnxnxnxnxnx wrote:

My problem with NXN is that it is kind of making the state meets less meaningful. It used to be that a team winning their state championship was the biggest accomplishment, now it seems to be losing some of that feel. Lets be honest there are only about 30 to 40 teams that have realistic shots at NXN.

NXN isn't making state meets meaningless. Neuqua Valley, last year's NXN champion, said winning state was a bigger deal to them. There are very few teams in the nation that can afford to overlook the importance of their state meet in favor of NXN. If there are coaches that are doing this, it's an injustice to their kids. I know a number of teams with NXN experience (and successes) who concentrate first and foremost on their state meet and look at NXN as a bonus to the season, not the focus.

Let's try to keep this civil because this is actually a pretty interesting debate and the points people have raised so far have been compelling.

I do feel it's only a matter of time before the momentum full swings over to NXN and Footlocker becomes irrelevant. This is my opinion, but it also saddens me--I grew up watching/admiring Footlocker and I wish it would continue. Its hard to swallow all that tradition going down the tubes.

I wonder how much of people's opinions on the quality of NXN versus Footlocker is shaped by age. I graduated HS in 2002 and I tend to like Footlocker and sort of resent NXN; it seems that most of my friends feel the same way. I wonder if more current high schoolers gravitate towards NXN though. If so, it's likely only a matter of time--a short time at that--until NXN does take over.

Thoughts?

hs coach... wrote:

They ran the world xc championships at the Meadowlands in NJ in 1984, I think.

They also ran world xc at Franklin Park in Boston which is very flat, almost a cinder track.

If they can run worlds at a racetrack in NJ and at FP then they can run the HS nationals at a racetrack in OR.

Yeah they built some "hills" in the Meadowlands--pretty funny looking. World XC have also been held in Paris at the famous racetrack whose name escapes me. Longechampes?

Does Footlocker pay for travel expenses for all the regional qualifiers to go to nationals? Look at Trevor Dunbar, for example. He flew from Alaska to California last week. I assume he had to go back for school this week, and then flies again tonight. I don't know about his family, but in this economy, plenty of families would not be able to afford that.

The problem is that the hills are these ridiuloous looking bumps. If they were actually hills it would be great. What the hell do they call them - woop dee doo? Something like that.

I know that the worlds were at the meadowlands. I think the hills were more like real hills and not some super steep bump. That is my only complaint. Plus, if I were a 17 year old I would much rather go to san diego and get my way paid.

I was at the meadowlands, they were man made hills or more like ramps for Evil Knievel to jump over something. They were not real hills.