GREATEST ENDURANCE ATHLETE ARMSTRONG OR KK ??

Greatest ever -Eric Heiden. 5 Gold Medals, 5 World Records.

Between KK and Lance..gotta go with Lance. Not based solely on his Tour win total(4) but on the way he won. Total domination.

My vote goes to Robert C. Byrd, Senator from West Virginia. That old kook is gonna outlive us all.

Haile Gebrselassie.

P.S. Mr. Beloki (Joseba), thanks for an all-around really bad post. I've seen few that are that stupid, so I offer you a big congratulations on your achievement.

If you include Lance and KK in the relm of the world's greatest athlete you would also have to include Dave Scott, six time winner of the Ironman. This event includes all the endurance aspects of both running and cycling and brings into play the aspect of technique(i.e. swimming).

My goodness me! The fox is in the hen house now. Cheeky comments from you, Joseba. Haile G. would make you suffer like you've never suffered before. At the end of the day, he'd dance like an angel on the pedals leaving you wearing a mask of pain on the drunken slopes of the La Mongie.

Just because you look between your legs and see nothing there doesn't mean you have to disparage the greats Khannouchi and Haile G. This board, like the peloton, makes natural selections and you, my little Basque friend, are an endangered animal.

I'd have to say I consider KK among the greatest marathoners ever, probably top three. All his marathons together, including the DNF, add up to the most consistent and fastest marathoner ever. I have no input on the question of who's a better athlete between LA and KK, since I think it's irrelevant and pointless. LA on the bike, KK on the pavement.

Well Phil, now remember that Lance has a host of trusty leftenants pulling him up the early stages of the Alpe D'Huez. Without the wispy pedal turns of Heras, or the valiant attacks of Chechu Rubiera, I reckon we might see him popped off the back.

du-can wrote:

Greatest endurance athlete of all time - Haile Gebreselassie.

Absolutely.

Lance is good, very good, outstanding. But Gebrselassie is in a world of his own.

To put it in perspective, how many WR's, World or Olympic Championships does Lance have? I have all tremenduous respect for him, but he's won a race in France 4 times. That's not quite the same as what Haile has done.

You silly little runner people. I am the best. Why, you ask, my pasty American friends? Because I ride a bike for many hours and wear leopard and tiger prints, and I can outsprint any man who ever straddled a top tube. And at the end of the day, I have my pick of the madamoiselles in Paris. Lance of the one testicle? He is no getting any.

Khalid the swarthy dishwasher of New York? The women are not clamoring for him last I check. No. It is always Mario, Mario, Mario! Sometimes it is too much. I think I can win Le Grand Boucle, if my manager keeps la chicas out of the Aqua Sapone hotel after the flat stages. You donna beleive the Lion King? You see. Check the link.

They cannot keep thier tops on in my presence.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/1711.0.html

I am totally impressed with Lance and what he does, what he has overcome, and how he dominates the sport. The sport, however has few participants when comapered to others, even running. (Whole other topic on cost and opprortunity). Simply put, there are far more elite marathoners/runners to compete with than bikers. As a result, I would have to give the nod to a 'thoner such as Geb or KK.

Also when they bike, don't they sit on their butt all day......maybe work hard on an uphill, but then coast on the downhills. Heck, most of the tour that I see on T.V. the guys are riding around slowly in a pack eating burgers, talking, and passing drinks around (probably won't see much of that in Chicago this weekend!)

"The Tour is very comparable to running 10-20k races every day for three weeks, choosing which ones to really push at."

Not exactly. When runners race they cause microtears in their muscles that cause a great deal of soreness that is not associated with that from the components of the breakdown of lactic acid.

Since running, and in particular, running hard, causes impact to the muscles and bones it is a lot easier on the body to perform at a high level on a bike than it would be on foot.

Also, in the Tour people do not go for broke on the first section, which all runners do since there is no 'latter stages' to hold back for.

There is hardly any way to compare the two

Bikers are able to compete at high lactic levels for longer times because lactic acid can be recycled in their less active upper boddies.

Many people do not realize that lactic acid is broken down within minutes of the finnish of a race, and in bikers studies have shown that lactic acid actually circulates to their arms and is broken down there, thereby lessening the lactic acid buildup in their legs. It is clear how this process is not possible for runners.

Let's look at it this way. Who is the best? Its all about the money. WHo makes more money Lance, or Geb?

Lance makes between 15-20 MILLION A YEAR. Geb and KK have had some good years where they cracked one mil. If biking is so damn easy and less competitive, then why dont some of the Africans buy a Trek and get to work. There is alot more money in cycling than distance running.

But startup costs for a serious competitor are much higher...

As a cyclist turned runner I'd have to give the nod to KK.

Sure Lance Armstrong is a great athlete and an even greater role model, but his sport combines too many intangeables to be able to define him the greatest living athlete. He needs a great team around him to be able to win tours, he needs great equipment, he needs a great support staff. His great athleticism would not overcome having a lousy team in the Tour.

KK has himself to rely on and nobody else.

You look at they way KK runs his marathons. He runs 26 consecutive 4:45-4:50 miles and is always the last man standing...he never relents and never lets up. Lance only has to push himself to the limit on 4-5 days over the whole tour, KK doesn't back off for a second.

"Lance only has to push himself to the limit on 4-5 days over the whole tour, KK doesn't back off for a second."

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It's not like Khalid hits mile one and is in sudden pain and exhaustion that he must fight off. He trains for this, he is in probably just as much pain as Tergat who is right behind him. It's not about not backing off, it's about who has the best aerobics, wins, breaks records, and dominates. Khalid has pace setters just like Lance has a team if you are looking for a comparison.

There is hardly an argument that can be made either way

Ok Joseba, Paul, Phil, and Mario, you guys know your not supposed to be posting on this message board you sillies! And as for the team part, Lance has not always had a great team like you guys are trying to build it up to sound like. If you dont remember '99, he didnt have anyone really to help him in the mountains. Hamilton was not with him on Sestriere when he broke Zulle, nor was Livingston. Granted they got better and helped more in 2000, but I think its quite safe to say that even with a less talented team, Lance is fully capable of controlling the peleton by himself. As for the whole argument, its tough to compare Lance and Geb, but I still give the nod to Lance. Your descriptions of "sitting on buts" while cycling and "passing around hamburgers" are grossly ignorant. They do have to eat in the middle of the day, so they pass around a food bag, so what...but I can guarantee that when things get rough up the side of Les Deux Alpes, Lance is not reaching out for a food bag, nor when hes being attacked by the sprinters in the flatlands. I guess I can appreciate your opinion of Geb or KK being better, but please spare us all the descriptions of passing "hamburgers", a three week bike race is not nearly as easy as some of you more recent post'ers are making it sound like.

Here's what you do, you organize a race called the UTAH ENDURANCE CHALLENGE with prize money of $4 million winner take all. From Moab heading west towards Zion Nat'l Park. Run-Bike-Run-Bike-Run-Bike. Invite the best endurace athletes in the world to show. I can promise you with my life that Haile G would get absolutely smoked, smoked. The "start up costs" for becoming a pro-cyclist are about $2,000. If Haile's so tough why doesn't he make an investment with more return potential? The guy can't hack it; just like he couldn't take KK. Let's face it, the guy's lost more races since August 2001 then at any point in his career. He's a washed up loser from the world's worst country(according to the UN Human Dev Index). I challenge Haile to a bike race from SLC to Flagstaff. I'd kill him. Lance and I can run sub-29:00 10km. At those times there's simply no way that Haile is a better athlete than us. We make more $$ and we could bury him worse than KK did in London.

Of course cycling is hugely difficult and credit goes to the sport's champions.

But one of the greatest aspects of our sport is that athletes can develop and excel without the need for expensive equipment, sophisticated team support, or other amenities only available to people with greater wealth than that of 90% of the world's population. Athletes from developing countries dominate distance running. When their countrymen are given a similar opportunity to develop into world class cyclists, then we can say that the best cyclist is equal to the best runner. Until then, hail the champions of the most competitive sport in the world.

(OK, maybe soccer/football fans can argue for that title, too. But there is an element of subjectivity in choosing which talented soccer-playing youth to develop--to choose for national teams, training camps, etc.--that usually isn't present in running. In our sport, "I finished before he did" is the only talent gauge that matters. And that leads to the deepest global talent pool in sport.)