RUNNERS FROM THE 70'S and 80's WERE CAPABLE OF SUB 13 and SUB 27

Amen.

Cram my favorite miler of all time.

Last sentence the best.

Why can't you just say ASS?

Maintaining the British thread - wasn't it Turin in the early 90's that we had three go sub 13:10 in the same race -Ian Hamer, Rob Denmark and Jon Nuttall for a 1,2,3?

Slim Jim wrote: Our only fault is that we've got a leader that kisses Bush's arse.

Feels mighty good too. Kinda tickles. But gall dang it, I wanted to give a purty speech in the Parliament, like Tony did in Congress. But they wouldn't let me. Said somethin' about security. What's that all about? I don't read the papers. Maybe their shorts were in a bunch 'cause my choppers were a little rough on the Queen's shrubs. But they can't vote for me, so who needs 'em anyway.

Gotta go now and line up my next cheap publicity stunt. It's gonna be tough to top my two-hour tour of duty on Thanksgiving, but Karl likes this one: I drive a Humvee straight into the DMZ (surrounded by Abram's tanks, of course) and challenge Kim Jung Il to an arm-wrestling match. My Nascar dads'll love it. Bring it on, Howard Dean!

Right about Mark. When he ran 13.22 he was with the leader with 200 to go. The winner ran 13.07!

Sad he can't even jog a 10 minute mile now he has such bad legs.

close but not quite - only one went sub 13.10 - Ian Hamer - the other 2 ran 13.10 - Rob Denmark and the lighty-mighty JB Jack Buckner

I think Nuttall's best was 13.18

[quote]Slim Jim wrote:

EPO wasn't aroun back in the days of Coe, Cram, Ovett.

You are obviously just some

ACTUALLY, epo has been aroung for millions of years. it is found naturally in the human body, genius. the brits and italians were using lab produced epo even before the africans. in coes book on training, epo is mentiond, but then conveniently drops the mention of it in the second edition of the same book....rosa was run out of europe, the eye-talians and brits have not been the same since.

now there is repoxygen. what is repoxygen, you ask.... ask that fraud you call paula radcliffe, she got it going on. paula will not run in the olympics out of fear of being caught. she will duck and hide and make huge $$$ on the roads.

"7 11/28/2003 7:45PM - in reply to runharder Reply | Return to Index | Report PostRight about Mark. When he ran 13.22 he was with the leader with 200 to go. The winner ran 13.07!

Sad he can't even jog a 10 minute mile now he has such bad legs."

I hope that was an exaggeration...it probably was..but just in case it wasn't...the only way he could have accomplished that is if he fell and crawled to the line b/c a 15 second difference in a 200 is WAY too much. Think about it...lets say the leader ran a 20 second last 200 (yea...right)...he would have to have run a 35 second 200 which is a lot slower than 13:22 pace.

slim jim, i agreed with most of your post but lets be real,

when britain can beat 80 million germans all by itself and put a man on the moon, then you can talk smack on an american website. beating up on argentina doesnt cut it jack. queen vicky has been dead for a long time. you are great in your own mind.

rick wrote:

. . . when britain can beat 80 million germans all by itself and put a man on the moon, then you can talk smack on an american website. beating up on argentina doesnt cut it jack. queen vicky has been dead for a long time. you are great in your own mind.

Slim Jim can call a fool a fool any place he wants, and anyone who accuses an athlete of using EPO before the stuff was invented is a malicious little fool.

And your non-sequitur on the military superiority of the U.S. conveniently ignores that ugly episode in southeast Asia about 30 years ago (never see the footage of the last marines being hoisted off the roof of the U.S. embassy in Saigon?), not to mention the quagmire de jour.

He ran 42 for the last200.

rick wrote:

slim jim, i agreed with most of your post but lets be real,

when britain can beat 80 million germans all by itself

Are you implying that the United States defeated Germany in World War II "all by itself"? Ummm...the former Soviet Union might have something to say about that.

-Brent

As smaller reason why athletes in the 70s ran slower was the tracks. Has anyone ever done a study on how the improvement in track surfaces has effected distance times. I know all tracks are different and the bigger races are on better tracks etc etc.

Would anyone hazard a guess? I would imagine looking at races in recent years when the surface has been very hard/soft that the time might be 5-10sec over 5k for a good track, but no more.

good point wannebikila, i'm sure track surface must make a difference, although what distance runners want and what sprinters want is different.

Haile Gebreselassie talks about this problem, he says that to run a world record he needs a track with the right surface such as Brussels. He hates those hard Mondo surfaces that the sprinters love.

I know, he could barely walk after the Atlanta 10k becasue of blisters which he felt were caused by the track. The trend in recent years (since tokyo 91?) has been for major championships to favour the sprinters. Personally, I think Geb would have achieved the double had this not been the case in '96. For all his dominance he never doubled effectively, did he?

He got closest in his first attempt in 93 when he left it very late to chase a brilliant Kirui. Nearly caught him too.

I cant remember if Haile successfully doubled in a major champs.

my intention in starting this thread was to promote the idea that British, American, Australian and New Zealand runners of the past were as good as todays top Africans

I know, but these thing always get side tracked!

The original question - In my opinion, they were not as good as todays guys.

I would guess that the big names of the 70s and 80s consider themselves lucky to have been running in that era (money aside).

In talking to one 'big name' US guy from 70s/80s - he stated that given the right circumstance he felt 27:00 was quite reachable by himself - then. We did not talk about other US guys or Brits - but I'm confidant he would have included some in that group.

MOHAMMED EL. MUSTAFA wrote:

....rosa was run out of europe, the eye-talians and brits have not been the same since.

now there is repoxygen. what is repoxygen, you ask....

That's true. No one likes to mention this inconvenient fact. Rosa always says he left because he was tired of what drugs were doing to the sport, but in fact he left because investigators were pointing their fingers at him and his riders. He began to work with Kenyans, and the incredible change in performance after 6 months raises more than eyebrows. Other guys soon followed suit. The funniest of the bunch defending these guys is Templeton. Man, what a fraud.