Steve Magness...Not since Jim Ryun......

Magness came in 11th in the sectional. As a freshman, Webb came in 11th in the nationals. Nevertheless, the great American milers going back to Glenn Cunningham were generally not great long distance runners, including Ryun, who never even ran a decent 5,000, so as for what kind of miler Magness will become, we will just have to wait and see. Comparing Magness to Ryun, however, bespeaks an astonishing lack of perspective. When Ryun ran 3:55 (on clay), he was beating the Olympic champion and he was within a few ticks of the world record. Also, I might add that when Lindgren ran 13:44 for 5,000 in high school, he broke the then existing American record, but Bob Schul won the race and claimed that record (on a cinder track).

remember Moorcroft 3:49/13:00, Spivey 3:31/13:15 and noe el Guerrouj 3:26/12:50.

At the same time, wasn't Webb like 11th or something in NCAA's his freshman year? And he certainly wasn't a 10k guy.

The difference is that Webb was 2nd at HS nationals. Magness didn't even make it! Comparitively Magness has improved a lot in XC. Look what he did. He ran his 5k PR twice in a 10k race! Magness is beating guys in XC who smoked him last year in a race half as short. Do some research.

I'm sure el Guerrouj could rip off a flying 10k (under-27min)

On this point, trackhead, you may be mistaken. Most Track & Field analysts would contend that El Guerrouj, at this point in his career, cannot go under 27:00 for 10,000m.

Actually, in Webb's first year at Michigan, he also ran his 5k PR (from HS) twice in a 10k race.

i agree wrote:

The difference is that Webb was 2nd at HS nationals. Magness didn't even make it! Comparitively Magness has improved a lot in XC. Look what he did. He ran his 5k PR twice in a 10k race! Magness is beating guys in XC who smoked him last year in a race half as short. Do some research.

I think most of the negativity around Magness is that he went to such a shitty program, where he won't have people to run with. Warren is a nice enough guy, but has not done much with the program.

I wish Steve the best, but I think we all have seen this story before.

Well i can't imagine 100 mile weeks every not being hard...but i understand what you are saying...however i also understand that anyone with half a brain...Could easily tell his 100 mile weeks were not easy by the clear evidence of his TIMES in track...You think he walked 100 mile weaks on his way to being one of hte fastest highschool milers ever? I think not.

then i disagree with most t/f analysts

On what basis, trackhead?

Last time I looked neither Moorcroft nor el G were Americans; and with regard to Spivey, I did say generally. One could also cite Marty Liquori and Matt Centrowitz against my claim, but consider in its favor that the two greatest American milers of the last fifty years, Ryun and Scott, were not great over two miles. More importantly, show me more than one or two great milers, really world class, who have run a world class 10,000 or have done exceptionally well in the world cross country.

trackhead wrote:

remember Moorcroft 3:49/13:00, Spivey 3:31/13:15 and noe el Guerrouj 3:26/12:50.

I agree with trackhead about sub 27 for El G.

el Guerrouj is in 12:50 shape. 26:55 is reasonable.

and next year I wouldn't be suprised to see him (and bekele, along with the former cherono) start to knock on Geb's WR.

Scott had the 3000m AR at 7:36 (not bad over 2mi) and I'm sure he could have gone better with a little focus.

The others (Moorcroft, el Guerrouj) are examples to be followed.

also, Maree.

As opposed to the runners-mill at Arkansas that uses you up, spits you out and goes on to the next poor soul?

Give me a break. Arkansas uses the same techniques Baylor uses for 400m runners -- get a bunch of them, run the crap out of them, and the few left standing will be great college runners.

Nice system, if you like sweatshops and forced labor, too!

Please excuse the ambiguity of my remark. I meant that when the distance was over two miles, Scott and Ryun were relatively weak. Up to two miles, they were pretty good, although if I remember aright the best Ryun ran was about 8:14. You are quite right to note Scott's wonderful 3,000. I think the two more interesting matters are these. First, are the great 5,000 meter runners more likely to be great at 1,500 or 10,000? Second, are the great 1,500 meter runners more likely to be great at 5,000 or 800? I think the latter in both cases.

trackhead wrote:

Scott had the 3000m AR at 7:36 (not bad over 2mi) and I'm sure he could have gone better with a little focus.

The others (Moorcroft, el Guerrouj) are examples to be followed.

also, Maree.

Stuart D. Warner wrote:

I think the two more interesting matters are these. First, are the great 5,000 meter runners more likely to be great at 1,500 or 10,000? Second, are the great 1,500 meter runners more likely to be great at 5,000 or 800? I think the latter in both cases.

Yes, you will see many more 800/1500 and 5000/10000 types than you would 1500/5000, because the specific training that athletes typically do for either of those groups are vary similar for those events (800/1500 and 5k/10k).

However, I think it is a short-coming to not race above and below your primary distance. I think you limit your potential at your primary event and run into the problem of stagnation.

A few examples:

Sebastian Coe

Races 3000m(i) and 400m during the early season and set himself up perfectly for 800m/1500m racing.

Saïd Aouita

Raced from 800m to 10000m and although he was probably unique in his ability to be world class at that range, undoubtedly his abilities at 1500m/5000m were strengthened via improving his ability at 800m and 10000m.

Haile Gebrselassie

Has raced 1500m to the marathon in championship events (London, esp. 2002 London in my opinion could carry the weight of a WC event). Improved his 1500m PR to 3:31.7i before his 1998 outdoor WRs, and in 2001 improved to 2nd all-time for 15k before running a 2:06 debut best at London.

Saaeed Shaheen

Raced both 1500m and 5000m to optimize his ability at 3000mSC.

Steve Scott

Raced road 5k/10k in off season, as well as occasional 400m time trials to prepare for 800m/1500m fitness.

Steve Ovett

Virtually the same program as the above mentioned for Scott.

It's worth noting, though, that the two runners responsible for the last 14 #1 rankings at 1500 (Morceli and El G) almost never ran any distance other than their specialty. (Maybe half a dozen off-distance races between the two of them in 14 years.)