not so competitive wrote:
huh, she ran 15:49.
Stating the time in a tactical race is retarded. Congrats.
not so competitive wrote:
huh, she ran 15:49.
Stating the time in a tactical race is retarded. Congrats.
14.21is only about 10s per mile faster than what they are looking to run at places like london. 14:50 is slower than desired race pace.
Montesquieu wrote:
Look at the way the 2008 London Marathon was run: the pace was all over the place. But connected to that, the African runners are not afraid to attack from the start. As the latest example, the recent NYC half marathon went out in 14:14 for the first 5k. That's pretty quick. Of course, in London the first 5k was 14:21 (the second 5k was 14:50)!!!!!!! That's pretty sick.
Fadl wrote:Shalane Flanagan (Pittsboro, N.C.): "The Ethiopians and Kenyans like to play around with the pace. I just had to deal with it, but my legs were tired and it was hard to change gears and just drop it like that. I tried to ease into every move because I knew that lactic acid was going to kick in if I went too hard. So when they made a move with three laps to go, I couldn't get there fast enough and I think it cost me two or three spots."
So what Gerry said in another thread in this forum about running (for 10,000 meter runners) sets of 65/55/65 400s
(he was outlining this for men) until exhaustion is obviously the correct way to prepare for the 5,000 and 10,000 the way it is run internationally.
Looks like it was a purely tactical race, from the split times.
It would be great if nbc showed this race in its entirety, but if we get it at all, it will be in snippets.
So... wrote:
Isn't Goucher like really old? how much improvement is really left for her? (Or Flanagan for that matter)
Flanagan is 27, Goucher is 30.
too bad NBC couldn't show the women's 5km...
it would have been a very instructional video on how not to run.
last 300m 00:40, last 800 2:03:4?
First 1km 3:39.20, roughly a 5:52 per mile pace
Last 1km 2:36:63, roughly a 4:12 per mile pace
15:49-15:50 5km, avg. per mile pace 5:05
Did the Americans have a Game Plan? A Plan B?
Sure by the quotes above none of them were healthy (100%) or really ready to kick with the Ethiopians. Their 8 and 9 second gap behind the leaders at the finish is more than 50 meters!
Yes, Shalane we appreciate your effort (AR & Bronze medal) in the 10,000 meters.
Kara is overrated in her own mind, way overrated!!!! She could not have stayed with the first 2 or 3 if her life depended on it. Her being in such fine shape, you say??? Yes, you are correct, for her ability, which is not the ability to be in the top 3, let alone think she had a chance at winning. Funny, Shalane was right behind her, and she didn't say those things. Hmmmmm.............
She's nuts to even say, let alone think that she could have won. Give me a break. She had every opportunity to pick up the pace, but she CHOSE to do nothing about it and then complain after the fact. She could have went to the front from the start and run 72ish and come through in 4:48, not world record pace, but respectable. But, at age 30, she didn't know better. Hmmmmmmm.............
As others on here have said, her arrogance precedes her. Her only chance to medal is to move up in distance, yes, believe it or not! Her and her coach have some realistic soul searching to do.
She meant, if the others had run slower than 16 minutes.
Then she would have won it, see.
Amen, she is completely delusional in thinking she is in Dibaba's league. Because she could hang with them for most of the race during a slow pace, she deluded herself into thinking she was almost as good as her.
It's like a person who is leading a marathon up to mile 20 and then crashes and then says they almost won it. No you didn't.
Sure? You don't have a clue of what you're talking about. Not a clue! If the others had run slower than 16 minutes, as you posted, then she would have won. Yeah okay, that makes a lot of sense, NOT!!!
She would have gotten outkicked if they had run the first 2 miles in 14 minutes, SEE! At any pace, she would not be able to stay with the first 3 during the last 2 laps and she could not drop them on her best day, SEE!
What are you not getting. She can say whatever she wants, AFTER a race, but she could not have executed during the race because it's not possible, SEE!
Letsrunner wrote:
It's like a person who is leading a marathon up to mile 20 and then crashes and then says they almost won it. No you didn't.
Shut up!
Correct.
The marathon analysis is right on the money. Kara is not in their league.
I believe they could have spotted her the first 2.1 miles and then let her jump in with the leaders with a mile to go and Dibaba would have said adios whenever she chose to do so.
She still would have gotten torn apart at the end and I would put money on it. She doesn't have the wheels to do that and there's no other way to say it. Dibaba can do it over the last lap of a 10,000 meter race.
while I agree that goucher has no chance at beating the likes of dibaba, I think that the attitude on this thread is a gross underestimation of her as well. in a race as absurdly slow as this one, she did not have the wheels of the top finishers. in a sub 14:55 ish race, she would not have been able to stay with the leaders. but I tend to think she would do pretty well in a race around 15:00- 15:10. flanagan would be more competitive in a significantly faster race, as the 10K was. so I believe the race played out about as badly for them both as it could have. I would like to see both of them in future do something about that instead of letting the africans dictate the pace. that being said, I think both of them placed pretty well given the race; medalling was not remotely realistic given the top 3 in this race.
I wonder how Lauren Fleshman would of done if given the chance?
What did Goucher need to learn for the future? Realistically this is her last Olympics, unless women's US marathoning just turns to complete crap once Kastor retires. If her support crew didn't give her better race plans or if she just choked and didn't execute it then she has no hope. She had to know by 1200m that she needed to get after it if she wanted any chance of a respectable race at all, because Dibaba and Defar and the rest would not just let her hang around until 200m to go.
... goucher has been running great, and there are races other than the olympics you know.
So... wrote:
Isn't Goucher like really old? how much improvement is really left for her? (Or Flanagan for that matter)
Aren't you like really young? Go back to dyestat!
Face it, Goucher ran a terrible race and had no grounds to claim that she could have gotten a medal. "I could have been a contender" Except she wasn't and it was her own fault. This is the last time you will see her in an Olympic track final, I believe.
the letter why wrote:
... goucher has been running great, and there are races other than the olympics you know.
PreRunner wrote:
I wonder how Lauren Fleshman would of done if given the chance?
would have done. You cannot "of done" anything.
instructional video wrote:
too bad NBC couldn't show the women's 5km...
it would have been a very instructional video on how not to run.
last 300m 00:40, last 800 2:03:4?
http://www.iaaf.org/oly08/results/eventCode=3659/racedate=08-22-2008/sex=W/discCode=5000/combCode=hash/roundCode=f/results.html#detFirst 1km 3:39.20, roughly a 5:52 per mile pace
Last 1km 2:36:63, roughly a 4:12 per mile pace
15:49-15:50 5km, avg. per mile pace 5:05
Did the Americans have a Game Plan? A Plan B?
Sure by the quotes above none of them were healthy (100%) or really ready to kick with the Ethiopians. Their 8 and 9 second gap behind the leaders at the finish is more than 50 meters!
Yes, Shalane we appreciate your effort (AR & Bronze medal) in the 10,000 meters.
in fact.. the most ridiculous split is the last 1500m, which was run in 4:03... good enough to qualify for the 1500m finals. Unfathomable reserve at the end of a race.
is it just me, or is that the africans can switch gears extremely quickly during races? it seems that the americans slowly work their way up to a quick pace, but the africans can go from running a 5:50 to a 4:12 in 200 meters
It seems the best strategy here would have been for Goucher and Flanagan to take and share the lead. Keep a fast steady pace. Yes, they wouldn't have medaled, but they might have finished 4th-6th instead of 9th & 10th.
Also, why all this critism of their performances when just a few days ago almost everyone was praising Rupp's 13th place finish. Yes, Rupp is young (age 22) but so were many of his African competitors.