not the real distance coach wrote:
so, was Jumbo like Bowerman at Oregon,? (Dillenger did the real, day to day coaching, starting in the late 60s).
As far as I'm aware, Jumbo was always the "real" coach.
not the real distance coach wrote:
so, was Jumbo like Bowerman at Oregon,? (Dillenger did the real, day to day coaching, starting in the late 60s).
As far as I'm aware, Jumbo was always the "real" coach.
I had a Jumbo Elliot football card about 15 years ago, and from the looks of him I don't think he was doing any 6x400's.
I wish I still had Marty Liquori's book. I don't think it's in print, unfortunately (could be wrong), but it was just a wonderful summary of what (I suspect) Jumbo's training was like. A brief, clear, eminently readable, and very enjoyable book--I'd be proud to produce anything as helpful. I recommend getting a copy if you can find one.
Liquori was world-ranked #1 in 1969 and 1971, IIRC, and ran sub-4:00 miles for something like six consecutive months in one of those years.
Training must always be seen in context, but I really think Jumbo "had a clue" about what would work for his guys in his situation. Optimum training is never independent of the people doing it and their goals.
And FWIW most of Jumbo's guys (that I know of) *did* run faster in college than in HS--a lot faster, in many cases.
I've got Liquori's book. It has more than simple 400s as workouts.
Okay, I've checked and apparently Liquori has written more than one book. The one I'm thinking of is "Guide to the Elite Runner" or something like that. It does indeed have "more than simple 400s as workouts"--but then I suspect Jumbo did, too.
PS I think the book may have had a different title when it first came out. I believe Playboy Press (or Playboy Books or whatever) was the publisher.
Yes, that's the one I have.
Lorenzo the Magnificent wrote:
I've got Liquori's book. It has more than simple 400s as workouts.
Marty Liquori and Jumbo Elliot are not the same person.
I have martys book and he talks about having a lydiard influence in his training method. His method is most likely a mix of jumbo and lydiard. He talks about being able to race at a high level during his phase 3 for a very long time like 3 months and then doing a short 3 week lydiard style small peak.
After Liquori left Villanova he began to change his training, as most post-collegians do, starting racing much less, aimed at peaking more, and soon became one of the premier 5,000 meter guys in the world. Liquori was once asked about when he was approaching an important race, whether there was one workout in particular that he'd count on. His answer was yes, there was one: rest.
Liquori recently said in an interview that it requires upwards of a month of rest before an athlete can run a mile to his/her potential.
Imagine the self-control and patience required for an athlete to rest for 3-4 weeks.....
bizump
Rest for 3-4 weeks?
What kind of rest, I guess he didnt mean no training for a month :o)
Yeah, I got into a discussion with some guys about stuff we did in HS in the 80's (I was coached by a guy from the 60's) -we ran hard almost all the time
-if we ran 8 miles we ran slower than if we were running 8. It was about that complicated.
What we ended up doing was a lot of the "new" stuff that's out there now, it just wasnt named.
callme wrote:
Rest for 3-4 weeks?
What kind of rest, I guess he [didn't] mean no training for a month :o)
Agreed, I don't think he meant no running.
The longest *actual* no running (that I'm aware of) by a top runner before a big race was Bannister's five days off (completely off) before his first sub-four mile.
The training methods utilized by Jumbo Jim Elliott, actually came from his coach at West Catholic and (then) Villanova College (now University), James Meredith. Meredith was also the father of 2 sons who were world class runners before WWI-double Olympic gold medalist-James "Ted" Meredith, and his brother, George Meredith. Both were scholastic stars at Mercersburg Academy (Pa), , before attending Penn, where they became world class middle distance runners. Coach Meredith's techniques are include in a book written by son Ted Meredith entitled-Middle Distance and Relay Racing.
Hope this helps.
John
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Also, they couldn't compete timewise with the more scientific training of Coe and El G, nor with what Lagat has with Dr. Li.[/quote]
They could certainly have beaten Coe, El G, Lagat if they were not on EPO.
EPO gives a tremendous advantage to user....see Lance D. Armstrong.