neurosurgery vs. investment banking... advice?

phd in physiology

I only had a like 3.4 undergard gpa in physiology and biophysics

to anyone that says psychology isn't a cake major you're a liar. I understand that any and all majors present their challenges. But if you went to college 15-20 years ago, don't pay attention. College is watered down now. This kid has a 4.0 in the core courses which is somewhat easy. Gen Chem, Calculus, World History....sounds really challenging.

The fact that you're deciding between investment banking, and neurosurgery....while being a psych major leads me to think you wouldn't be good at either. If you want a challenge, why not be an astronaut? Do you see how ridiculous you're being? Anything can be challenging, it just depends on where you stop at.

The starter of this thread is either Joking or hopelessly naive...but for those reading...

1. 4.0 in Psychology is like arguing Hawaii should be number 1 in the BCS ranking. Hawaii/Student could be the top team/student..doesn't mean they are. B-schools, Med schools know that. With grade inflation so rampant at "Highly competitive" Universities, especially in the Liberal arts, I would notbe surprised if there are at least 50 students with a 4.0 in Psychology applying to medical school. \

2. Major does matter. You would have a hard time getting into medical school as a Psychology major if your GPA was not 4.0. On the other hand, if you were an Engineering Physics major at a Prestigious school, good MCAT scores and 3.3 would get you in.

3. The type of "confidence" exuded by the original poster is precisely what makes a resident "Dog Meat". Remember that as a resident/intern..."if something is not done, it is YOUR fault whether it was your responsibility or not." This includes "menial" work like rounding up films, reports and lab results.

4. I rotated onemonth in Neurosurgery as a neurology resident and although it was possible for most disciplined people to do (ie runners) it was not exactly pleasant. the PGY-1-3 residents were on call an average 1 in every 3 nights and up at night and when someone went on vacation, it was every other night for 9 days. PGY-4-6 residents were every third night there but had the junior people doing the "menial work"..and all this for a salary of 40-60K per year.

5. If teh orginal poster is serious, it is really a sad state of America when the medical profession is competing wth Investment banking for people interested in pursing the profession.

FYI

AB in Mathematics from Cornell University, GPA 3.1 and I attended an Average Acreditted American Allopathic med school and my main complaint about the med school was that it even more expensive than other schools more or less prestigous

Plain and simple wrote:

Those are two COMPLETELY different fields. Sounds like you're in it for the wrong reasons.

Honestly, you sound like a huge D-bag.

At least that didn't take long. Perfect response.

Anonymous wrote:

This is to you idots who are saying things about being a psychology major. If you were so bright as to know what the undergrad courses follow for a first you pre-psych major are, you would realize that they are almost identical to a science major. General chem, calculus, physics, general education courses.

This is complete BS.. I have a psyc degree and never had to take chem, calculus or physics...

............... wrote:

This is complete BS.. I have a psyc degree and never had to take chem, calculus or physics...

caught!

everyone knows psych/english/philosophy/comm are fluff majors. Why do you think so many "undecideds" migrate there?

If you are posting on "Letsrun", I certainly doubt that you have the brains to be a Neurosurgeon, most of those people read medical journals.

yourdad wrote:

I won't lie - prestige certainly plays a factor, as I'm sure is obvious. Criticize me if you want, but I want my children to be proud of what their father does for a living.

Because there are only two professions on the planet that a kid could be proud of his dad for...my dad was a teacher. No wonder I resented him. If only he had been as cool as you...

Troll rating: 8/10. Nicely done.

the340miler wrote:

Plain and simple wrote:

Those are two COMPLETELY different fields. Sounds like you're in it for the wrong reasons.

Honestly, you sound like a huge D-bag.

At least that didn't take long. Perfect response.

The fact that I crave success and achievement and generally want to DO something with my life and HELP OTHER PEOPLE should not make me a target for this kind of ridicule. What did I ever do to you? I have been nothing but polite in my posts, and I just wanted a little friendly advice from people who have been there and done that.

Residency is definitely a little scary to me. Do you guys think that it's tougher to be a resident or to do i-banking working 70+ hours per week? How about once I'm a neurosurgeon, how would those hours compare to i-banking? If I'm working so hard so that my son will be proud of me, it would be nice if I could spend a little time with him hahaha

Now this is going to sound ridiculous, but in most depictions I have seen of investment banking (such as American Psycho), i-bankers get all sorts of perks due to their connections with important people... an example would include reservations at Dorcia. Most of the other examples I can think of are nefarious in their nature (ie, incredible hook-ups for cocaine), but I'm sure there are other, family-friendly perks to being an i-banker. Is this kind of thing overblown, or can I expect some serious advantages to come along with the prestige of i-banking?

Thanks for the genuine responses, keep them coming.

7/10

Here's an idea for you're next troll post. Don't contradict yourself. "I want to be ambitious and I'm willing to do whatever it takes and not sleep"....."but I'm worried about the hours, will I have to work 70 hours a week?"

ummmm okay.

The fact that you crave success and achievement....that's a belittling statement that implies no one else on here does. So no, you have not been poliet in your posts.

Your did the cool troll trick of narrowing the logic of helping people with your life to two opposing choices, Neurosurgeon or Investment Banker....ohhh spicy. I especially like the implication that kids are only proud of "succesful" parents.

Ulimately your trolling became obvious by playing to your critics and baiting them. Good luck on your next post though!

I work in an investment bank, though I'm not a banker, and yes, your depiction does sound ridiculous. Most investment bankers are pretty nerdy guys who work 7 to 7, the only thing glamorous about it is that there is a bit of money floating about. Unless you're not genuinely interested in the work then you shouldn't even consider it. If your only interest is to satisfy your own self-image of a high achiever then people will see straight through you anyway.

Others can comment more on the medical hours but I do have one friend doing a residency and she works even harder than the bankers I know.

If your post is genuine then to be honest you sound very immature. You seem to want to satisfy some idea of how to make other people think you're smart, rather than thinking about what actually interests you.

is math considered a tough major?... hmmm

Corrected

yourdad wrote:

My interest in neurosurgery is primarily based upon two things: money, and the power trip. Mostly money though

My interest in investment banking is money and prestige

check out katrinafirlik.com she is a neurosurgeon, her husband a former neurosurgeon turned venture capitalist.

i hope you have daughters...

NO OFFENSE, but it seems like you are just in it for the cash. If you want to earn money so badly, go marry a Hollywood star.

Plain and simple wrote:

Those are two COMPLETELY different fields. Sounds like you're in it for the wrong reasons.

Honestly, you sound like a huge D-bag.

Ditto

Choose neurosurgery and find ways to surgical remove all brain tumors even in the most delicate spots...I'm up at 5:40a.m. trying to get my wife ready for another doctor trip..I am exhausted, she has had GBM for 2 years..and it's falling, falling ,falling...radiation therapy gone wrong into dementia ..doctor trip after doctor trip..

We need more neuro people DETERMINED!

The greater challenge is being a successful investment banker. Many more non-merit based factors (who you know, who you work for, where you work, social skills, etc) involved in being an investment banking success. Most successful bankers/traders will admit they are ridiculously well paid, but could get a face shot any day. As a neurosurgeon candidate, if you can keep making the grade and handle the workload, seems like you will make it somewhere and probably keep your job until retirement.

This borderline fails my troll sniff test, but I'll bite as someone that switched from pre-med to economics my Sophomore year and wound up on Wall Street.

Investment banking is not like American Psycho at all. It is not like Wall Street, Wall Street 2, etc. I work for a hedge fund, but most of my friends in the city are analysts at banks. Here is a basic rundown.

-The hours are really as bad as people say they are. 9:00AM-2:00AM is pretty standard when there is decent deal flow. Saturday is 10Am-10PM, Sunday may be 12pm-9pm. 100 hour weeks are very standard. Its not that bad to do one or two weeks at a time, but when it happens for months on End, people start to break down. Expect a day or two at Christmas for vacation and one week during the summer. You aren't actually working the whole time, you essentially are "on call", whenever a model needs to be changed to reflect a new twist on the transaction you have to be there to do it ASAP. Its bouts of furious work and then sitting around and waiting.

-You will live, breathe, and die Excel. Investment banking analysts don't use a mouse and generally know 100+ shortcuts. Banks recruit at the top schools and demand high GPA's partially out of habit, partially because they need Type A people who are perfectionists. Financial modeling is not rocket science, but you can't make any mistakes. The Associates are supposed to check the work, but they rarely do.

-The perks you talk about are relatively rare, particularly post 2008. In 2006/2007 things were apparently a lot better. Now, you can expect free meals every day and some discounts at museums. Very very few people do cocaine, a lot of people do Adderall.

-Money is very standardized at the lower levels. Base salary for 1st year analysts is 70k, bonuses ranged from 40k-70k this year, so 110k-140k all in. Remember this is in NYC and you are working 2.5x as many hours as normal people. For 120k total comp, expect to take home 75k. Rent/utilties in NYC will probably hit 20k, then throw in student loans, 401k contributions, etc, its a lot less than it seems like. For the next two years total comp should go up about 20k a year. Associates make roughly 225k with 25-30k bump each year. At the VP level there is more latitude, but 400k-500k is pretty standard. Moving beyond that, its all about how much business you can bring in. Most guys have the goal of leaving after a 2 year stint to go to private equity or a hedge fund.

I know very little about medicine, and have a tremendous amount of respect for doctors. They have actual skills that will always be in demand and can truly help people. Finance is very important to a capitalist economy, but I'm sure the personal satisfaction from being a doctor definitely isn't there. I enjoy my work and am perfectly content with my role in society, but some people struggle with it.