Attention Footlocker Organizers: Move Delaware to the South!

UDrunner wrote:

Dear TPAINE

"TPAINE,"

Grammar was not important in the last post just the information.

"post, just"

I didnt know

"didn't"

this was an english class I thought it was a forum about running.

"English class, I"

Your last one is still a run-on sentence.

To the original poster: How do you propose we pick up an entire state and move it to the south?

[quote]Shadenfreude FTW wrote:

Mike D. assistant at St. Marks (previously at Wilmington Charter) is another guy who seems to really know what he is doing and is an excellent motivator.

Are you serious? Good runner, nice enough guy, not who i'd want coaching me however.

UDrunner wrote:

Dear TPAINE

Grammar was not important in the last post just the information. I didnt know this was an english class I thought it was a forum about running.

The information is unimportant if you're unable to convey it in a coherent, easily readable manner. Being able to convey it thusly is the earmark of an adequate education.

Alistair Craig and Josphat Boit didn't even go to hs in the US, let alone run Footlocker. Joe Falcon went to hs in Missouri.

Don't believe Louisiana has ever had a Footlocker qualifier?

So a few responses, its already been mentioned that Tatnall has been to NTN twice, and one thing of note is they are in the southeast for NTN but northeast for footlocker. Sallies very well would have made an NTN back in the day. While I think DE would be advantaged from being in the south, I think it is inconvenient enough for NTN to have to go to Alabama to qualify.

Mike D is a very successful runner, and also does very well as a coach. Sometimes he has interesting philosophies on things, but all and all, he is a good guy, but an especially good motivator with his personal successes. Pat Castagno I think could easily transition to coaching college, as he has basically run Tatnall like a college team, with much higher mileage than almost any other team, which is why he has been successful as a high school coach...yet his graduates have not been as successful in college comparatively, but I cant say that this is his fault or the nature of his programs fault at all.

He also had the footlocker east sophomore champ, a few years back so clearly he and delaware should have had a shot, they have been mentioned in the past few years as having people with a shot at making it.

coachkritter wrote:

Don't believe Louisiana has ever had a Footlocker qualifier?

Louisiana has never had a girl but has two boys.

1989 Michael Morin, 1996 Ryan Travis

States without a boy qualifier:

Arkansas, Delaware, Hawaii

States without a girl qualifier:

Arkansas, Delaware, Louisiana, West Virginia

Technically not a state, but Washington D.C. has not had a qualifier yet, either.

I graduated from high school in Delaware in 2002. I didn't run during college, but I took up running on my own when I came to grad school and I have progressed way beyond what I even thought I could during high school. In my experience, and I don't know if this applies to all Delaware high schools, expectations were too low. If 16:20 won the state meet, and 17:30 got you 40th place, shoot for 17:30 and you still do fairly well. Sallies won every year, St. Mark's finished second, and there was a rotating group who went for third. That was an accepted hierarchy. I know that I personally didn't have the competitive streak in high school that I do now, so I don't know if I would have responded to higher expectations, but by and large I think that performances have improved recently because standards have been raised. Not everyone is capable of running 15:30 in high school cross country, but pushed to a reasonable measure, most can probably run around 18:00. I haven't checked past results, but I'm pretty sure that 18:00 on a flat course would have gotten about 50th place in the 2000/2001/2002 DE state meet.

Ok, geography whizzes -- how does it make sense to move Delaware without Maryland? Delaware is bordered on the south and west by Maryland -- who would still be in the NE...

There's probably a better argument for moving Arkansas than Delaware.

Arkansas is already in the South region. If they can't get a qualifier in the South then they will never get one in the Midwest.

Rand McNally atlas wrote:

Ok, geography whizzes -- how does it make sense to move Delaware without Maryland? Delaware is bordered on the south and west by Maryland --

What is the Mason-Dixon line?

Agree Mike D is a great coach.

Is there a state with a slower state record than Delaware's? 15:23 set by Pwiggly.

For a while when I was in HS (1996-2000), Maine's state record was only in the 15:30s. But that record was held by Louis Luchini (2nd at FL nationals his senior year and a multi-time All-American at Stanford). Before that the record was in the 15:40s.....this was set by Matt Lane (4th at FL nationals his senior year, all-american at William&Mary, and 4th at Olympic Trials). So maybe that tells you something about the old course in Augusta. The course has since changed twice. Here's some of the top times at the new courses:

Belfast Course -

Ayalew Taye 15:39.6 (on the the top HS runners last year, 17th at FL nationals as a junior, now at Georgetown....you may remember his name from nationals this year)

Levi Miller 15:42.8 (now running very fast at Georgetown)

Ben True 15:50.1 (5th at FL nationals as a senior, all-america skier and track athlete at Dartmouth)

Sintayehu Taye 15:50.4 (freshman national record holder in indoor 2-mile, 16th at FL nationals as a junior)

Miles Bartlett 15:52.2 (now at UMaine)

Leavitt course (new)-

Ethan Shaw 16:22.37

Tyler Clark 16:24.26

Sam Sheehan 16:27.73

Nick Williams 16:30.48

Timothy Even 16:45.93

I know we were talking about grammar eariler and I definitely didn't proof-reading....

correction:

Ayalew Taye 15:39.6 (*one of the top HS runners last year*, 17th at FL nationals as a junior, now at Georgetown....you may remember his name from nationals this year)

and for being a small state (just over 1 million for a population) look at some of the runners they have produced (especially in the past 10 years):

Bruce Bickford

Brian Pettingill (1981 milrose mile champ, 4:08, went to stanford)

Colin Peddie (1981 - 9:08 2mile, went to UVA)

Derrick Treadwell (olympic trials 1500)

Eric Nedeau (ran for New Balance, olympic trials 1500)

Matt Lane (All-American William&Mary, 4th at 2004 olympic trials)

Louis Luchini (All-American, Stanford)

Ben Fletcher (great HS runner...4:15/1:51(relay)/9:16, went to Oregon but stopped running)

Jeff Gaudette (Hep Champ at Brown, ran with Hansons for a while)

Pat Tarpy (Hep Champ at Brown, runs for Reebok)

Brendan O'Keefe (Ran at Brown, presently with Zap Fitness)

Ben True (All-American skier and 1500m runner at Dartmouth...ran 3:59.99 last summer in the mile)

Ayalew Taye

Sintayehu Taye

Eric Giddings (great HS runner in 05 and now at Stanford)

Levi Miller (now running great at Georgetown)

Brandon Bonsey (now running great at Georgetown, 4:04i last year)

And if you want to throw a girl's name out there, how about...

Anna Willard

let me know if I left anyone out

Justin Easter....ran at D3 Bates, national champ in steeple and all-american skier. he's a professional xc skier now

If you are throwing down big names like Bickford then you kind of have to include Joan Benoit.

I got word of this thread last night and thought I'd chime in with my perspective from having run in DE in the early 90s.

Yes, Delaware *should* have had at least one person make the final 8 in either boys or girls in the region. Delaware is a very small state. In fact, its not really even fair to compare it to other states when its about the size of a lot of major cities. There have been a handful of people who have come through with either the ability to qualify for FL, or at least the ability to be in the hunt (and hope for a good day). However, most of those athletes just don't have any big meet experience. Because of the size of the state, its rare that a fast runner in DE would really have any competition. Only very recently have there been some exciting races with competetion in the front pack.

Delaware has had its fair share of studs. Notably Vicki Huber in 1983-84 running a 4:54 in the 1600 and going on to being a standout at Villanova and then placing 6th at the Olympics. Denise Marini won the national indoor 3000m in the early 80s. Dom Delapella won the 1500 at Penn Relays 2 years ago. Bruce Harris ran 1:49 in the 800 in the late 70s and was one of the 50 fastest runners in the country (including college and pros). Vick Zwolak was also an Olympian.

They come, but they are certainly few and far between, and when they are here they run every single race by themselves.

When I ran, I won states by 20 seconds. More notably, I was 50 seconds ahead of 3rd place. What kind of experience did I have? I ran 17 meets and won 14 of them (or had the ability to) by a minute or more. No offense intended toward my competitors, but I didn't have the kind of competition I would have seen in PA or NJ.

Re - slow state meet times: During the late 80s and early -mid 90s, the state meets were run on one of two courses; Brandywine Creek and Killens Pond. The Creek is, to this date including my college races, THE hilliest course I've ever run. The course record was set by Sharif Karif (2nd at nationals that year) in 15:50 with Alan Webb running just a bit slower in another year. The other course was a back woods single track that was like running on a sand bar (before they changed the course ~1995). In my senior year of HS I won states with a lack luster 16:37 on a rainy day, but just one week earlier I ran 15:46 on a flat course.

Also in my time we had a guy named Mance who went 15:43 a couple of years later, and then Eckstrand to go 15:42 a few years after that. Their State Meet times were also well in the 16s on the harder courses.

I don't think any of us had the ability to qualify for FL. However, if you look at a region with triple the population, guys like us would have had more surrounding talent to push us. Instead of winning by 15-20 seconds, we'd be pushing each other, not just in the race, but in training. I don't think any of us ran more than 50 mpw, and only 35 mpw in season. We weren't lazy......we thought that was a lot of running. It was clearly getting the job done.

One of the more common Letsrun posters attributed the age of the internet to the rise in recent American distance running. The kids now days have better access to what it takes to be a great runner. Personally, I'm injury prone. I probably maxed out my talent in HS and don't think I ever could have qualified for FL. I do think, however, that DE has grown out of the Dark Ages and finally has some good coaches developing the talent in the area.

I think you'll see a lot more out of this small state in the years to come.