Ritz' 24 mile workout at 5:09 pace

MarathonMind wrote:

Even Bordin was not dumb enough to run 2:15 in training. 2:29 is nowhere close to the pace Ritz did.

I guess you missed my post regarding Bordin, who did premarathon workouts that were easily as tough as 2:15 marathons.

2:10 pace is what? <5 pace right? So a lot of 4:55's along the way. I'd have to say the kid is speaking the truth, that he really did just bonk for the 2:14. His lactate levels were falling those last two miles.

I said there's some nice hills in the area since I cant be sure how they set up the loop. To me it looked like they were actually over on the other side (the more isolated side) at least for some of it, but I can't be sure exactly either.

Was probably a good simulation.

left his best race in Eugene

dsrunner, I am sure how the course is set up. It's marked it red. They did the loop twice with a 2 mile add-on.

Actually, I should clarify - they started at Bailey Hill road, making the loop 11 miles, plus the add-on.

I guess Hall has as well. Running sub 5 for most miles of a 15 mile MP run (sub 50 for 10 miles), at an altitude of 7000, and also running into crazy types of wind and hills. His video of his 15 mile run is up and no one seems to question that. 5 minute pace at altitude in windy conditions is easily 10-15 seconds per mile faster at sea level.

So why is no one calling that BS or saying it is just insane? I would say in both cases these guys are ready to roll....as I am sure that many of the runners will be this weekend. Good luck to all those running.

Mike

Avocados Number wrote:

MarathonMind wrote:

Even Bordin was not dumb enough to run 2:15 in training. 2:29 is nowhere close to the pace Ritz did.

I guess you missed my post regarding Bordin, who did premarathon workouts that were easily as tough as 2:15 marathons.

I don't think he missed the point. I think 95% of GOAL marathon pace (or 100% of pr marathon pace in Ritz' case) for 24 miles is a bit harder than 85% of marathon pace for 28. Sure, it depends on the runners, but I think Ritz's workout is harder than Bordin's listed one (not the Bordin at 5:00 pace altitude run that someone suggested he did, but the one you are are talking about: 2:29 marathon with 2k tacked on)

I didn't miss it. 22 miles is not 26.

If one bothers to do the calculations, the 24 mile run with the 4 tacked on was no later than October 12, and probably no earlier than October 6 (the 14 mile run took place on October 9). Moreover, Ritz said he was very comfortable with the pace. As regards Le Coq's remarks about Malmo, since the latter once ran 2:12, he might know something of what he speaks. However, as best I can tell, the map Malmo provides corresponds to Ritz's 14 mile workout as shown on Flotrack and not to the 24 mile run. So, Malmo, do you know what parts of the highway Ritz ran the 24 on? Second, the hill at 5:47 of the Flotrack video, does that correspond to the small blip on the map just part the 17 mile marker? Regardless, a "very comfortable" 24 mile run at 5:09 per mile is a pretty terrific workout.

malmo wrote:

dsrunner wrote:

Lorraine Highway area has some nice hills

Not.

The course is marked in red, although I believe they started at the "14 mile mark" on the megamagneto loop.

Image:

http://i4.tinypic.com/4paqmxc.jpg

you know why no one is calling BS on Hall, because unlike Ritz he has run fast when it matters. He holds the US half record and had a very fast debut unlike the overhyped ritz.

Most of you guys are out to lunch on this one probably because off of your 30mpw you cannot fathom that a guy can recover from a 22 or 24 mile run at a quick tempo. These guys run way more than you do and can recover well. This workout would definitely take something out of his legs for a day or two but he'll be ready to roll. Same for Hall. I am no where close to their level but my best races have come off high milage and a long run at close to MP 10 days out (2:40 pace).

I remember when Ndereba set the WR only to come back a week later and run I sub 31 for 10k. Her legs were fine and so will Ritz and Hall. They have to be two of the top favorites going in.

My predictions...

1. Hall. How can you doubt after that 1/2.

2. Abdi. Way too fast and competitive for 95% of this field.

3. Meb. Experience takes the third spot.

4. Ritz. His best race won't be good enough...

5. Sell. Will make it a good race but will be gunned down the last few miles.

[quote]Montesquieu wrote:

If one bothers to do the calculations, the 24 mile run with the 4 tacked on was no later than October 12, and probably no earlier than October 6 (the 14 mile run took place on October 9). Moreover, Ritz said he was very comfortable with the pace. As regards Le Coq's remarks about Malmo, since the latter once ran 2:12, he might know something of what he speaks. However, as best I can tell, the map Malmo provides corresponds to Ritz's 14 mile workout as shown on Flotrack and not to the 24 mile run. So, Malmo, do you know what parts of the highway Ritz ran the 24 on? Second, the hill at 5:47 of the Flotrack video, does that correspond to the small blip on the map just part the 17 mile marker? Regardless, a "very comfortable" 24 mile run at 5:09 per mile is a pretty terrific workout.[quote]

Yes, I was talking about the 24 miler. Two 11 mile out-and-back loops, plus 2 miles. Yes that's the hill. It's nothing, you'd barely notice it.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

I think Ritz's workout is harder than Bordin's listed one (not the Bordin at 5:00 pace altitude run that someone suggested he did, but the one you are are talking about: 2:29 marathon with 2k tacked on)

No, I was talking about the 5:00 pace altitude workout that I mentioned earlier. I wasn't talking about the 2:29 marathon with 2K tacked on (which is a workout that even I could have handled a couple of weeks before a target marathon, and I was nowhere near Bordin's level).

MarathonMind wrote:

I didn't miss it. 22 miles is not 26.

Well, then you still don't get it. 24 miles at 5:09 pace at sea level is not as tough as 22 miles at 5:00 pace at 7,000 ft. altitude.

Montesquieu wrote:yadda yadda yadda

Monti, here's the loop in isolated form. They started at the half mile mark.

It seems like apples are being compared with oranges all over this thread. People are taking things quite personally, when they are referring to people they have maybe never met.

It's a good thing that these guys have to run a race (instead of submitting fitness and training reports) in order to qualify for the olympics. It's an even better thing that the letsrun crowd is not allowed to judge and vote them onto the team.

Of course after the race it will be fun to see all of the experts come on here and bash someone for this and say I told you so for that. Unless your sponsoring these guys I don't see what there is to get so worked up about. Let them train let them race and just respect the fact that they are training hard and racing faster than you.

I understand predicting and supporting your favorite, but bashing other guys training methods seems pretty rediculous.

Having said that, my prediction for the top 10 is:

1)Jason Rexing

2)Hall

3)Ritz

4)Christian Hesch

5)Abdi

6)Brandon Moen

7)Culpepper

8)Pat Tyson

9)Aj Nation

10)Joey Chestnut

DFL: Dean Karnazes (The Greatest American Distance Runner Since Pre)

DNF: Lance Armstrong

dsrunner wrote:

The only real problem race day is taking in too much gel, too much caffeine. I will be surprised if the pace is slower than 5 tomorrow.

I guess you'll be quite surprised then.

BroFromAnothaMo wrote:

1)Jason Rexing

2)Hall

3)Ritz

4)Christian Hesch

5)Abdi

6)Brandon Moen

7)Culpepper

8)Pat Tyson

9)Aj Nation

10)Joey Chestnut

DFL: Dean Karnazes (The Greatest American Distance Runner Since Pre)

DNF: Lance Armstrong

#7 - Tim or Daunte?

Great for Ritz. I'll believe it when I see it tomorrow. Since that was no problem, he should be able to cruise 4:45's or so and dominate, right?