Hudson on Ritz - Medalling is not realistic

It's not just the diet that was causing the injury troubles, though that is an issue. Altitude was also not a key for Ritz. Brad got him out.

Personally I consider Ritz, not Hall, the more likely to run 2:07 in the marathon, and improving the fueling will make the difference, along with accepting that 120/week is not mandatory for a kid who already has -8% body fat. I'd guess that a purposeful 80-90/week plus water running would be all Ritz needs.

As for assessing the 2008 medal prospects, Brad is being honest. The best bet is to use the track as a springboard for the inevitable road racing, and fix the things that will make

faster marathons a lock.

Dude - you have committed the sin of omission.He never ran a marathon before - 2:20 would have also been a PRHe never ran a half marathon before - 1:08 would have been a PRHis 10K PR was only a couple of seconds slower in college The 5K was a good improvement but on the order of 10 - 12 sec from college.Did Ritz run the 3K outdoors in college? If not it would have been an indoor PR.So, basically you are left with Ritz improving only a couple of seconds in the 10K and any race over 12K would be a PR.

Perplexed wrote:

Velocity! wrote:

Ritz needs to realize his options. He can do WAY better than Hudson. No offense to Hudson, since I know he's reading this - but it's true.

Under Hudson Ritzenhein has run

7:39.03 PR

8:11.74 PR (#3 USA All-time)

13:16.06 PR ( #21 USA)

27:35.65 PR (#10 USA)

61:25 PR (#5 USA)

2:14:01 PR

cuo wrote:

Dude - you have committed the sin of omission.

You've committed the sin of insanity.

2005 USATF National 12k Cross Country Champion

2006 USATF Nationals 5000m 3rd

2007 USATF Nationals 10000 3rd

2007 World Championships 10000 9th

Well, you're leaving out perhaps his most significant performance -- his third-place finish in the world junior cross-country championships (behind the great K. Bekele) when he was still a scrawny little high school kid. That performance, more than any other, was the one that drove expectations for Ritz to such high levels. That's a tough act to follow. Following that, anything less than world-class running looks disappointing.

From your link:

"The study found that women with "disordered eating," including bulimia and anorexia, or those who take in too few calories because of dieting, experienced decreased estrogen production, a key factor in bone development, Reinking said.

DROP IN ESTROGEN-

When people burn more calories than they consume, he explained, they release fewer hormones, which slows down menstrual cycles and decreases estrogen in the body."

So, Ritz was either on a starvation diet at CU, or forcing himself to throw up every night, which caused him to stop having his period, and this drastically lowered his estrogen levels, which led to his stress fractures. WHAT !?!?!

C'mon.

A) this study dealt with WOMEN (and the hormones and eating disorders of WOMEN), and even Ritz's biggest detractors wouldn't confuse him for a female, and

B) you have absolutely no idea how much Ritz was eating in college.

Talk about taking a "stab in the dark" to diagnose his past injuries.

The "Ritz is always injured" concept is a bit of a myth. He had some problems in college. Over the last two+ years though, he's had only minor injury issues, and has trained extremely consistently, even training though his last injury on the reduced-gravity treadmill, and coming back stronger than ever. He did a couple interviews on flotrack where he talked about this, and said his reputation as "always being injured" is blown way out of proportion. He's trained very consistenly the last few years, as much as most elites.

And you said "injuries don't have to be a part of running". Well sure, but they are often a reality of running no matter what you do. To be great, you need to push the envelope, and that will always put you on the edge of getting hurt or sick. Look at Bekele (he was sick, or burned out, or whatever after his Mombassa race), look at Geb (who has injured his achilles a few times), and look at Mottram (who tweaked his hammy before worlds) just to name a few elites who are as tough and smart as they come. Sometimes injuries happen, no matter how much you eat, or no matter how much estrogen you have flowing through your body (ha ha).

Perplexed wrote:

Under Hudson Ritzenhein has run

7:39.03 PR

8:11.74 PR (#3 USA All-time)

13:16.06 PR ( #21 USA)

27:35.65 PR (#10 USA)

61:25 PR (#5 USA)

2:14:01 PR

Before Hudson, Ritz had run 13:22 and 27:38, with no half or full marathon attempts. Is the improvement really that spectacular?

I seem to remember Malmo, who is very knowledgeable on heat and humidity, commenting on the Osaka weather, stating that it is not beneficial to train in the conditions as preparation for competing in those conditions. Malmo, or others, correct me if I'm wrong on that recollection. I have tried to search it in here, but the search function isn't exactly ideal. The ice vests and minimal warmup may have done more for Meb and Deena than anything else.

On the other hand, Steve Cram, who is at least as knowledgeable, wrote an article pointing to Liz McColgan's months of preparation in Florida for Seoul 88. Then there's Benji Durden's experience, not to mention what Salazar had the Gouchers and Rupp doing with those plastic suits.

How did Salazar's own preparation for the LA Games work out?

weighing it out wrote:

On the other hand, Steve Cram, who is at least as knowledgeable, wrote an article pointing to Liz McColgan's months of preparation in Florida for Seoul 88. Then there's Benji Durden's experience, not to mention what Salazar had the Gouchers and Rupp doing with those plastic suits.

It should be noted that Alberto's group wore those suits in high altitude Park City, which is "the dry heat." Had they tried to wear rubber suits in Florida they'd probably been victim of heatstroke.

Aha, I found it. Thread was titled: Morgan and O'Brien's Prep Going Well 7/26/2007:

Ethan Farrell wrote: I know they are heading down to Florida for about a week in order to run in some hot and humid conditions and then flying to Japan. Best of luck to both.

Malmo wrote: That's a dumb move if they are.

sleeper wrote: Why is that a dumb move? Isn't it good to train in race like conditions?

Malmo wrote: No it's not. Seeking abysmal conditions to train in will only kill them.

There's no need to go anywhere unless you live in a very dry climate. Train in the morning and evening. Walk around outside during the heat of the day. Get a good night's rest in air-conditioning at night.

You acclimate between runs, not during them.

What did the Hansons run at WC? 2:23 and 2:28. Yuck.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=2042368&thread=2038430

PT Barnum wrote:

How did Salazar's own preparation for the LA Games work out?

Undone by previous damage done, probably.

Not the same wrote:

It should be noted that Alberto's group wore those suits in high altitude Park City, which is "the dry heat." Had they tried to wear rubber suits in Florida they'd probably been victim of heatstroke.

Either way, using them forced them to perspire more and for their bodies to learn to operate at a higher temperature when evaporation (which the suits prevent) fails to take away sweat to cool the skin and body.

I don't know if you're saying this with tongue-in-cheek, but come on now-- I pointed out the study was in college female athletes. Obviously, in men the equivalent sex hormone is testosterone. I don't know if a similar study has been done in male college athletes, which would be interesting. At least in animal studies with adult male rats, there's a decrease in testosterone (and decreased bone quality) with decreased food consumption. Given Ritz's problems with stress fractures, it seems plausible it could go back to diet.

This isn't a stab in the dark.

Did you see the video with Ritz and dietary strategy before US Nationals (~"Eat less, weigh less")?

Furthermore, if you've read Running with the Buffaloes or kept up with the Goucher videos, they've also talked about having issues with eating habits in college, had their own inconsistencies, and dealt with injuries.

Sorry, but multiple stress fractures and stress reactions during college and beyond are not 'minor injuries'.

In the book "The Marathon: Physiological, Medical, Epidemiological, and Psychological Studies", one thing they point out that separates the elites from everyone else is their inner awareness of themself and how they feel. Highly introverted.

You look at any runner who has had a long illustrious career, and you ask, "how did they do it?" It goes back to this introvertedness. Knowing your body so well that when something minor flares up, you take care of it immediately. You don't let it linger and develop into something chronic or severe. Sure, push the envelope.... continue to improve. But if you really want to be the best you can, you'll get there through consistency and taking care of the 'little things' before they become 'big things', which allows you to maintain this consistency.

Quite specious, homegirl. Is this exemplary of UTulsa and Oregon State level work? Quit digging your hole deeper.

terps wrote:

I seem to remember Malmo, who is very knowledgeable on heat and humidity, commenting on the Osaka weather, stating that it is not beneficial to train in the conditions as preparation for competing in those conditions. Malmo, or others, correct me if I'm wrong on that recollection. I have tried to search it in here, but the search function isn't exactly ideal. The ice vests and minimal warmup may have done more for Meb and Deena than anything else.

I disagree. I'm not elite and no more than a former D1 runner. But when I moved to Memphis from the midwest, I had to deal with 99-100F heat everyday for long periods... and was unable to the 1st year. But I kept with it, despite some pathetic runs, and 100F felt like 80F by my 2nd year. If Malmo's really saying that acclimating the body in the heat doesn't work, then he's wrong in that regard. At the same time though, he may be speaking of doing it within a time frame, etc... which would be different.

I know that Ron Daws was a big advocate of heat training and he learned to do it from Buddy Edelin. But Daws was very clear that he didn't think heat training EVERY DAY was beneficial. He just thought that would wear you down. He piled on sweat suits for one day's run, then just ran in shorts for the next day or two.

On the other hand, if you're someone who's spent most of your life in hot and humid weather it seems reasonable that you'd be better adapted to it. If you live in that sort of weather lone enough you'll likely make some sort of adaption. But I'm with Malmo on the idea of someone from, say, Vermont, packing off to the Southeast in the dead of summer being a bad idea. They'd do better to stay home and run in a sweatsuit every other day.

sleeper wrote:

“His biggest vulnerability is fuel and diet,” says coach Hudson. “My feeling is that the conditions in Beijing will be very tough. It will be hot, and you’ll need a little luck. We’d like the Trials to be a success. Medalling in the marathon this time is not realistic, nor in the 10K. But Beijing will be very unpredictable. My concern is how hard he pushes in the Beijing heat. It could have a damaging effect that lingers. You can see how hard he pushes himself. Does he have the energy to complete a marathon at world-class pace?”

Wow. I think this explains Ritz's pacing at the world championships. His coach doesn't believe in him...

Ugh. This is so pathetic to see coming from a coach of one of the US's better prospects. He's a year from a race (that he hasn't even QUALIFIED for) and his COACH, rather than preparing him for the conditions he'll face, is already afraid his charge will push too hard at the Olympic f#cking Games?

I'm not even a big Mottram fan, but at least he has a coach with some vision.