YAY! Hope this is the beginnings of the myth collapsing into dust. Doubt it, though. The media will ignore it, the IAAF will shrug its shoulders, and idiot Europeans and Americans will go on blindly believing every bit of PC crap shoveled their way, while the smiling Africans laugh their asses off, and give you the finger from the medal stands.
MSUrunner wrote:
I will wait until his "B" sample comes up positive before I jump to any conclusions. I have also always liked Bernard and hope that there is just some sort of misunderstanding.
Oh yeah, a misunderstanding. A misunderstanding among his coaches and doctors. They screwed up. He's as guilty as they come. He responded well to the drug. That's how a guy with such little speed could run such a fast mile/1500.
OK, all the Kenyan/African haters are gonna have a field day. Does this change ANYthing???? No. We all KNEW there were some druggies in EVERY continent out there. Wow, big surprise.
Does this mean that that the East African runners are any less naturally dominant???? NO.
Does the fact that Ben Johnson got busted make the East African heritage sprinters any less talented, and their dominance over white any less true???? NOOOOO.
Does the fact that Dieter Bauman got busted mean that all great white champion like with a Coe or a Ryun or whoever really were frauds??? NO. (of course there will always be the OCCASIONAL white athlete who can compete with the best Africans anywhere. There are ALWAYS exceptions, outliers).
This changes nothing. But have fun haters, because a Kenyan getting busted is your wet dream I know. But don?t miss one thing:
Lagat is BASED IN THE GOOD OL? USA AND WENT TO COLLEGE HERE. If he IS dirty, doesn?t that taint US as much as his own countrymen??? Yes it does. While slow-twitch fibers are genetic, CHEATING is environmental. So be careful where you shine your spot-light haters.
This changes nothing.
lee wrote:
...and krum shares his coach...
Krum is coached by Luis De Oliveira. Lagat is coached by James Li. Two different people last time I checked. Before you implicate someone in a drug scandal get your facts straight. Oliveira coached Cruz to 1:41 before EPO.
Let an American improve 17 seconds in one summer and Dick Pound would go crazy. Lagat does it and the world says,"He will not even take a malaria shot."
El G travels with a Dr. and two coaches. The Dr. looks like Mr. Universe. How many times has Dick Pound tested El G out of competition??
Congrats to WADA, keep up the good work.
Man... no wonder I can't break 3:40 doing the same training as lagat! I used to wonder how this guy could jog 30mins a day, do workouts that most juco guys could handle and run 3:26. Time to move across town and train with De O.
Who is more likely to cheat to become a super elite athlete? An African whose life could change completely, or an American who would get a second bathroom in his house, a slightly faster car, a third personal computer, and a "bidet" for the new bathroom?
The bigger the reward the higher the risk you are willing to take.
The Maestro
Sprinting is dominated by athletes from West, not East African origin.
Lagat's breakthrough came after his NCAA experience, not before.
This may not change everything, but it does make one think.
Martin
This is pretty dissapointing, i really like Lagat, and I never even considered him being on drugs.
LA/pure running wrote:
Lagat is BASED IN THE GOOD OL? USA AND WENT TO COLLEGE HERE. If he IS dirty, doesn?t that taint US as much as his own countrymen??? Yes it does. While slow-twitch fibers are genetic, CHEATING is environmental. So be careful where you shine your spot-light haters.
This changes nothing.
Yeah, it does change things. Lagat spent SEVERAL MONTHS EACH YEAR in Kenya, for his "altitude" training. Read everything on his training. That's where he and most of the cheats do their cycles. Face it, the Kenyan's medical team screwed this one up.
Oh, they have a lot of talented individuals, but the numbers we see, and the times they produce, are mostly artificial.
The E. Africans wouldn't be near as dominant without the drugs. But PC morons, self haters, will refuse to see the obvious. As soon as their on the (for now) untestable Repoxygen, we can be sure you'll be breathing easier.
No, it's the PC morons that are running around as if their their heads have been cut off. Those that suspected drugs can only say "We told you so."
This is huge. This is just huge. I think it's like the Ben Johnson case and the Tour de France case of a few years back. Until now we've always had at least some reason to think the great East Africans were just running on talent and hard work. But now a Kenyan Olympic medalist has been caught juiced. Maybe the world records really should be 3:29, 13:00, 27:22. Maybe Jorge is better than we thought.
I kind of like Wino's idea. Maybe two leagues -- one with yellow-eyed, balding, zit-backed mutants running a 1:30 800m, then melting; the other league with a death sentence but winning 10k times of 27:39 (a la Viren).
Makes me sad to think that Chuckles is right. This may be the tip of the iceberg. Prediction: the testing will be even more rigid for the next Olympics, and like the last Olympics the winning times will mysteriously be quite pedestrian (predict 1:44.5, 3:32.5, 13:05, 27:25). -- Spidey
Martin wrote:
Sprinting is dominated by athletes from West, not East African origin.
Lagat's breakthrough came after his NCAA experience, not before.
This may not change everything, but it does make one think.
Martin
Not exactly accurate my friend. Lagat gave up his senior year of eligibility after a successful summer in Europe.
I wish you were right, Spider. But I think all of the E. Africans will be shooting Repoxagen by next year, and they probably won't have a test for it by then, if ever. Now, maybe some European could avoid spot tests, etc. and use the same drug(s). But, so few Euros and no Americans with the talent in the first place are even running, so the impact won't be that great until more Americans and Europeans become interested in the sport. It's soccer, NBA, football, all kinds of things competing for attention. Even without drugs, E. Africans might dominate. However, their dominance would be slight if it were indeed the case.
Most potential world beaters in the US have probably never even thought about going out for track.
Any chance that Bob Kennedy EPO'd?
Maybe track enthusiasts could pay the manufacturer of Repoxen to put a tracer or an ID tag on the drug in some way and not publicise the fact. WADA could then test for the ID and bust the athletes. Where do I send my money?
Chuckles -- you're correct; I also wish I was right. Oh well. I'd better get back to the lab and work on the repoxagen test. Thought: if we just SAY that we have a repoxagen test available in time for the next Olympics, maybe people will stay off it because they're not sure, and the second half of the 10k won't be 12:57. But I doubt Dick Pound and Co. are that sneaky. Other thought: we do a bone marrow biopsy on everyone at the opening ceremonies (. . . hold still while I jab this harpoon into your iliac crest . . . what price glory?).
Spider wrote:
. . what price glory?).
How much is repoxagen? : )
Hell, I remember thinking a "fake" EPO test might help several years ago. Then I realized Elstre, Rosa, etc. are MD's. They'd go looking for the abstracts on the tests, etc.
They should develop tests and NOT let anyone know they can detect some of these drugs.
Yeah, testing. Sigh. The only reason any of these guys gets caught is their doctors foul up. Maybe Lagat was going for a "booster", and was popped, an unexpected test coming his way. Probably what happened to Chepchumba. With their location, the E. Africans can do their dirty work without much fear of being caught. But if they try to be cute, they can be as vulnerable as Westerners.
DIck Pound is an ass. He's too busy trying to figure out ways to keep American sprinters from getting caught.
The athletes and their doctors will stay one step ahead of the testers for now.
I would guess that part of the success in catching Lagat is due to the fact that they tested him two weeks before the Worlds began. He probably felt safe in stopping the drug at his normal time, but didn't figure that he would be tested two weeks early.
The tip of the iceberg came 20-30 years ago with the likes of the East Germans and Ben Johnson. This is simply the latest installment in the history of track and field as well as ALL professional sports. If there is money and fame on the line, people will cheat to get it.
Alan
LA/pure running wrote:
Anyway, hate away bigots, but a single Kenyan male getting busted does not taint of all of East Africa in my mind. I am sure it does in yours.
Let's review the cheaters shall we??
Chinese swimmers got busted, so all of Asia is guilty in all endurance sports by association.
Baumann got busted, ...
Blah blah blah. No one said other nations don't have athletes that cheat. Point is, American sprinters enjoy protection. Look at King Carl. Oh my, it turns out the Federation protected him. Oh look, Jerome Young tested positive, but let's overlook it. Same goes on in E. Africa. They have location, they have the political will. They have a lot of talented individuals, and a lot of them are doped. Look at WHO the main coaches are. Look at their backgrounds.
Ask yourself who it is you aren't allowed to criticize, then ask yourself "why?". Then you'll know who is in charge, and who is playing dirty. This holds true in most areas of life.
HEEHEHEEEEHEHEHEHEEEAHAAAAAHAHHHHAAAAA. PAULIE WAS RIGHT.