are there really people who think that webb is better than ryun? i think we're addressing a problem that really doesnt exist.
are there really people who think that webb is better than ryun? i think we're addressing a problem that really doesnt exist.
oldhalfmileguy wrote:
No i don't think i am missing the point, all these threads about how great Webb is blah blah what a great range
Ryun set the 2 mile AR the 6th time he ran the distance beating Kip Keino and others, then set a WR for the half and an AR for the mile in a 5 week span, when he was 19
could Webb have done that? i doubt it
No....you're an idiot and can't put two and two together....but no Alan Webb could not have set the WR at distances from 800m to 2 miles at the age of 19.
Richard Perry wrote:
oldhalfmileguy wrote:No i don't think i am missing the point, all these threads about how great Webb is blah blah what a great range
Ryun set the 2 mile AR the 6th time he ran the distance beating Kip Keino and others, then set a WR for the half and an AR for the mile in a 5 week span, when he was 19
could Webb have done that? i doubt it
No....you're an idiot and can't put two and two together....but no Alan Webb could not have set the WR at distances from 800m to 2 miles at the age of 19.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. oldhalf seems to be arguing that Ryun was better at age 19 than Webb was. I don't think he'll find any opposition that one.
oldhalfmileguy wrote:
Jim Ryun ran a 47 second anchor leg in theMile relay at the KU relays
followed that a few weeks later with an American record in the 2 mile
a few weeks later another american record in the mile
then a couple weeks later a World record in the half mile.
5 week period in 1966 3 AR 1 WR
oh yeah, he was only 19...
Maybe if you would ask the correct question you'd get a better response.
Alan Webb's range is better than Jim Ryun's was.
Alan Webb is incapable, as is anyone else in the world currently, of setting WR's at 800m through 2 miles at any age never mind 19.
Different times, different eras.
Both Ryun and Webb have incredible range.
Ryun was the best of his day, Webb is not, but has better times.
It is too tough to compare right now. Webb is not finished.
Ryun's half mile record was unbelievable.
1) I think it was his second race in two days
2) He ran the last 400 all alone
3) No rabbit
4) Bettered the WR by 1 second
5) 1.44.8 on cinder
Honestly, I think he could have run 1.42.00 that day on mondo with a rabbit, modern spikes and competition.
Jim Ryan was cool and has his place in history.
Webb is about equal but a bit more of a goofball thus far.
It is not the number of Webb threads, it is the content.
People seem to get more and more outrageous with their predictions and praise, pretty soon Webb is the best ever.
Basically I just wanted to piss off some of those people by reminding them of what Ryun did @19 and Webb didn't.
If people talk about accomplishments in the mile, half, or 2 mile well i am sorry someone who set AR in all 3 in the span of 5 weeks at 19 is still today's news.
what was Ryun's 10000 PR at the time?
You're making a blanket argument for Jim Ryun over Alan Webb, which would be fine if you'd acknowledge ALL of the facts... but I don't feel like going into the evidence already posted on this thread in front of your eyes.
If you want to give praise to Jim Ryun then do so, but it doesn't make sense to try and belittle Alan Webb on his own accomplishments. They are two like runners from different eras with slightly different strengths. Webb would have killed Ryun over 10k and Ryun likely would have killed Webb over 800. Ryun had far more impressive championship criteria by the end of his career, but Webb hasn't nearly finished his yet. Stop living in the past and support America's (current) greatest middle distance runner.
Why do you keep emphasizing the 19 years old part? Ryun may have peaked as a runner earlier than Webb, but his career was over sooner too. Let's wait until Webb's career is over before we (unfairly) compare him to one of the all-time greats.
Also, you want to talk range, how sick is it that Geb ran a 3:31 1500 INDOORS? Plus 12:39 plus 26:22 plus whatever his marathon pr is - 2:06ish. Now that man had some freaking range.
hey moron wrote:
Webb would have killed Ryun over 10k and Ryun likely would have killed Webb over 800. Ryun had far more impressive championship criteria by the end of his career, but Webb hasn't nearly finished his yet.
True, but look at what it took to win championships and set records back in the 60s and what it is now. Ryun ran 3:51.1 to set his mile WR and 1:44 to set his 800 record. The WRs are now 3:43 and 1:41. Lets see, which one would be harder to hit, WR in the 60s or WR in the 2000s? The American Records are 3:47 and 1:42. I don't believe Ryun still holds those records, meaning that Webb would have to have run much faster (4 seconds in the mile!) at the same age to meet your criteria. Isn't that a wee bit rediculous to try to compare the two? You're skewing the facts to meet your agenda worse than Fox or MSNBC.
Webb's career has, thus far, brought him to faster times in every event over the 800, so I would say Webb's range is better. Ryun ran his most impressive performances when he was fairly young, Webb had a couple of down years in between High School and Pro because he went to college and it didn't work out well for him.... this whole comparison is apples and oranges. Ryun was good, Webb is good. Ryun was a dominant force on a comparatively weak world scene. Webb is a role player, but not dominant, in a stronger field.
Steve Ovett could run under 47, way faster 800s, and ran I believe right around 1:02/1:03 for the half marathon. No contest.
kartelite wrote:
Did Ryun rub a 10k debut in 27:34?
Oh yeah, Webb was running 47.x relay legs when he was 17/18 years old.
Webb has more range. However, Ryun split 46.9 (yards) an hour after a 3:55.8 mile. Very few drug-free world class milers could do that even today. Ryun probably had more potential as a half miler, as his 1:44.9 (yards - 53.3/51.6) was 90 minutes after a heat in 1:50.9, which would still be amazing today. With today's training / knowledge someone with Ryun's talent would run considerably faster than in the 1960's, just as today's runners would be slower if they trained as the runners in the 1960's - never mind having lower 'targets' to aim for. A side not mentioned by Steve Cram a couple of years back, an areaa Western runners of the past up through the 1980's have on most of today's runners is confidence. Many Westerners, especially British and American runners have an extreme lack of confidence when lining up against Africans and others, even though some have the latent talent to compete. A large part of running is of course mental. Mottram catches Hell for his supposed mouthing off, but he has grabbed a medal at the WC's. I suspect he catches Hell because he's white and that makes the minions with no confidence jealous and a bit frightened, although they probably don't understand why they are irritated. They would never, ever comment on a black athlete who "mouths off" (and there is no shortage of those, truth be told). For the most part, comparing runners of different eras if foolish. Webb has more range than Sebastian Coe or Steve Ovett. Is he a better runner than either of them?
Do your homework on Ovett. He has more range than Webb ...at least for now.
It is not really all that fair to compare... Ryun didnt have the competition that Webb does, nor does Webb have the records Ryun held... each is a great athlete of their era... but it's hard to compare against generational divides... it's apples and oranges...
So what? I ran a 19.29 200M and doubled back with a 26:14 10K. I don't go bragging about it.
kartelite wrote:
Did Ryun rub a 10k debut in 27:34?
Oh yeah, Webb was running 47.x relay legs when he was 17/18 years old.
Look, these mile relay leg times are extremely dubious. Not just Webb's, but Ryun's as well. Tack 1 second on for authenticity, and you have Webb running 48.8 for the open 400 meters. A fine time none-the-less.
Have you ever noticed these super fast 400 times always come in relays, with the COACH doing the timing.
I say 48.8 for Webb; no faster. For Ryun I would say 47.8.
Does this sound reasonable to everyone?
I thought Ryun was blazing fast. I could be wrong, but I thought he had sub 47 speed. His blistering kick was his trademard. Keino reranged his entire race plan in New Mexico around Ryun's spped and Keino was quite quick himself. I just don't envision Komen and his Kenyan teamates plotting to blast the pace on account of Webb's finishing speed.
The fast 400 times also come from the fact that relay splits have a flying start, as opposed to a stationary start with open 400s. Relay splits are always a little faster than you would have run in an open race.