McDougal runs 3:57 Mile at Liberty Home Meet

fast but stupid wrote:He did run pretty well indoors this year, but this guy is a national champ type. He should have at least one title by now.

No he shouldnt....why would you say something like that? he has ran NOTHING to indicate he should have at least one title by now. None of his times or feats have made him stand out from the guys someone posted below. Hes amazing...but dont forget there are other guys who are FASTER.

fast but stupid wrote:

3:57 is a good time, but WTF Josh? I don't understand this kid. He will dominate all season, run some really capable times, then suck it up at nationals. He did run pretty well indoors this year, but this guy is a national champ type. He should have at least one title by now. Hopefully he can finally put something together. However, he better be careful. 3:57 for the mile is awefully fast this early on. Has he ever heard of periodization?

I don't the he should have won any titles already. As many of you have said he's a time-trailer, if runs like that at the championships he will never win, there will always be a guy behind him being able to kick him down. Winners are always the kickers in one way or another.

baros wrote:

fast but stupid wrote:

3:57 is a good time, but WTF Josh? I don't understand this kid. He will dominate all season, run some really capable times, then suck it up at nationals. He did run pretty well indoors this year, but this guy is a national champ type. He should have at least one title by now. Hopefully he can finally put something together. However, he better be careful. 3:57 for the mile is awefully fast this early on. Has he ever heard of periodization?

I don't the he should have won any titles already. As many of you have said he's a time-trailer, if runs like that at the championships he will never win, there will always be a guy behind him being able to kick him down. Winners are always the kickers in one way or another.

Anybody think his coach can't peak him? He is completely at the mercy of his coach.

Also, I don't usually don't say anything negative about a runner (and this really isn't), but maybe his extreme religous views may cause him to not put the needed mental focus, because he would not want to glorify himself. It is very possible.

Mrr, some day maybe you'll learn the difference between run and ran. Maybe.

I like McDougal a lot, but he needs to get away from those whack jobs at Liberty.

Lydiard wrote:

baros wrote:

I don't the he should have won any titles already. As many of you have said he's a time-trailer, if runs like that at the championships he will never win, there will always be a guy behind him being able to kick him down. Winners are always the kickers in one way or another.

Anybody think his coach can't peak him? He is completely at the mercy of his coach.

Also, I don't usually don't say anything negative about a runner (and this really isn't), but maybe his extreme religous views may cause him to not put the needed mental focus, because he would not want to glorify himself. It is very possible.

Yeah, those 130 mile weeks don't take any focus at all. Running a 3:57 mile, 7:53 3k, 13:37 5k, yeah those don't take any mental focus either. Give me a break.

fast but stupid wrote:

3:57 is a good time, but WTF Josh? I don't understand this kid. He will dominate all season, run some really capable times, then suck it up at nationals. He did run pretty well indoors this year, but this guy is a national champ type. He should have at least one title by now. Hopefully he can finally put something together. However, he better be careful. 3:57 for the mile is awefully fast this early on. Has he ever heard of periodization?

You surely don't know anything about periodization.

Whoa, I don't really care where/when/how he ran it... with his aerobic profile, he'll do some sweet running in his career.

If he hasn't performed up to snuff at the championship races, he'd probably be the first to recognize that and try to fix it, don't you think (not really directed at you qc)? Sometimes, I am not really sure what the intent is on some of these posts... the analysis isn't that great and just sounds kind of negative.

Yeah, those 130 mile weeks don't take any focus at all. Running a 3:57 mile, 7:53 3k, 13:37 5k, yeah those don't take any mental focus either. Give me a break.[/quote]

Apparently reading what I said does. If you knew any serious evangenical christian you would know that when it comes to doing something that may even possibly glorify your own accomplishments rather than God's to a larger extent than what you normally do, it is considered sinful.

He has the same Mile PR as Chris Solinsky, for what's it's worth...

Lydiard wrote:

... when it comes to doing something that may even possibly glorify your own accomplishments rather than God's to a larger extent than what you normally do, it is considered sinful.

No, the doing is not sinful. Glorifying yourself or the accomplishment is.

A personal belief doesn't have to preclude 100% mental focus, dedication and determination. If anything, it could make somebody more focused and determined. People who might not summon the strength to lift a heavy object off themsleves might be able to do it to save their child, in the view that their child's life is more precious than their own and that saving that life is a greater good than anything they would do for themselves. Doing it to prove their own strength so they can boast about it, instead of doing it to save the child, would be the "sin" and they probably wouldn't be able to lift nearly as heavy an object if that was their reason for doing it.

Lydiard:

So bragging, showing off, patting yourself on the back, thumping your own chest and screaming for attention and glory, and punching out strippers ala Pacman Jones is considered good form in your reality?

well played bear. I agree wholeheartedly.

Lydiard wrote:

Apparently reading what I said does. If you knew any serious evangenical christian you would know that when it comes to doing something that may even possibly glorify your own accomplishments rather than God's to a larger extent than what you normally do, it is considered sinful.

Who was who said that "The man who knows nothing often pretends to know all." ??

Who was it who*

It is interesting, a bit, that both McDougal and Hall seem to do best when out on their own, churning away in self-mortification...classic Christian "lonely suffering for a Higher Cause", and seem to lose focus when they are thrown into the fray.

Joggernot wrote:

It is interesting, a bit, that both McDougal and Hall seem to do best when out on their own, churning away in self-mortification...classic Christian "lonely suffering for a Higher Cause", and seem to lose focus when they are thrown into the fray.

You mean like when Ryan Hall won U.S. XC trials and beat Meb K., the olympic silver medalist, by 3 minutes? Or when Josh Mcdougal went up against Alan Webb and Goucher and Broe and made the world XC 4k team as a college frosh? Of course...that could hardly be considered "being thrown into the fray."

And that was Uppaluri Krishnamurti btw, who also said that "as long as you think you have something to renounce, you are lost."

Chris Hall wrote:

You mean like when Ryan Hall won U.S. XC trials and beat Meb K., the olympic silver medalist, by 3 minutes? Or when Josh Mcdougal went up against Alan Webb and Goucher and Broe and made the world XC 4k team as a college frosh? Of course...that could hardly be considered "being thrown into the fray."

And that was Uppaluri Krishnamurti btw, who also said that "as long as you think you have something to renounce, you are lost."

despite your coutner examples, both McD and Hall tend to run their best when alone or way in the lead it seems to me. Your examples of Hall's good races lists a couple races where he took the lead early and ran away. THAT's the point: if he can run away early, he does amazing, if not, he doesn't always have his best day (though of course, he's run some really good races when mixing it up. But I do think that he, and McD to some extent, run better "alone", not battling back and forth against a crowd of top runners)

The Waltons wrote:

I do think that he, and McD to some extent, run better "alone", not battling back and forth against a crowd of top runners)

I agree.

We've all had competitors that, if we're around them towards the end (and not necessarily just the final kick), we KNOW we'll finish ahead. Whether making a later-race move or the final kick...whatever. Hall seems like that kind of runner, at the elite level, to come out at the shorter end of the closely battled stick.

Warhurst once said that racing means making that decisive move to win. Hall can do it earlier when it's still in the pacing phase, using his fitness to dust everyone. But in the latter portion of a race he can't deal with his elite opponents.