Vegetarian diet, good or bad for a runner?

My husband and I are vegetarians (no eggs and no dairy). We are both runners and have never been in better shape then we are now.

I have been veg for almost two years and he has been for almost 1.

I used to get colds during the winter and have not even had the sniffles since I went vegetarian.

Soy and Quinoa are the only two foods (that aren't meat) that provide all essential amino acids. Lysine and tryptophan are the two that are lacking in all other veg sources. Eat enough soy and quinoa and you will be covered. Taking a veg multiviatmin wouldn't hurt either.

Giving up meat is great, if you ever miss it just check this video out and it should turn you right back....

http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp

ps- if you eat eggs or dairy you don't have to worry about B12, if you don't eat them then you should take a vegetarian B12 supplement, they're easy to find at any health food store

some very interesting stuff here, whether you follow it or not.

his son is an accomplished triathlete in austin and follows the program.

Yeah, Bootsie! I was hoping you'd show up.

If you have any doubts about our modern American diet, go to the mall and look around. Notice all the fat butts waddling everywhere. Then go to the hospital and get an eyefull. Check out the people with heart disease, strokes, high blood pressure, cancer, osteoporosis, major organ failure, kidney stones, and on and on and on and on and on. Those are the folks that 20 years ago were saying, "I'm not cutting down on my meat eating. I'm enjoying my life."

I now pass it on to the next post, which will be some moron who writes "PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals."

I'd agree that the modern American isn't ideal for our genetic make-up. However, you can't compare the people waddling around at the mall, or their needs, to the needs of runners putting in 100+ mpw. As I previously mentioned, our ancestors actually ate 2x more animal protein than we do today.....BUT, they also consumed 3x more plant protein! You could assume our ancestors were more 'like' the runner putting in 100+ mpw and therefore had a greater need for protein in the diet.

Thus, a causal factor for the chronic diseases isn't necessarily due to an overconsumption of meat, but could be due to a significant under-consumption of plant foods, which are also rich in micronutrients (ex. potassium citrate) and phytochemicals that protect against diseases. Additionally, the decrease in the level of physical activity combined with excess kcals (~in the form of carbohydrates--> processed food) certainly doesn't help the modern folk. Over the last 30 years, there's actually been a significant decrease in the % of fat intake and a slight decrease in % protein.

Bekele is a vegetarian. I'd say he does alright.

bootsie wrote:

steaks. wrote:

I don't really get why anyone would eat vegan style.

check out

http://www.goveg.com

that's why. animals suffer tremendously on factory farms, and supporting these industries is also supporting environmental destruction on levels much higher than any other human practice. and with all of the antibiotics, steroids and other hormones which are now fed to animals raised for food, you are potentially putting yourself at risk.

No, that is a poor argument, and it was after looking at that site a while back that I decided not to try veganism--not yet, anyway. The cruelty and inhumanity shown to piggies and chickadees have no bearing on the case. Let's be kind to our animal friends, but let's judge diet on its own merits. Will I be healthier and faster on a vegan diet, or do I need meat or other animal protein? That is what I want to know.

Our ancestors ate more meat, but they also only lived to the ripe old age of 30.

Biochemical research is showing we don't need the massive amounts of protein that is sometimes recommend. For one, too much protein (even from beans) can cause kidney stones. Our USDA, which sets nutrition guidelines, is rife with executives-on-sabatical from the meat industry.

If our ancestors were more like 100 mpw runners than mall people (and you're right they were/are) they need more calories, and higher quality food than a non-runner. However, meat, especially the meat you get today is so full of toxins it is nothing like pre-historic meat. Along with protein, meat today is laden with fat, various growth and stress hormones, massive doses of antibiotics, uric acid, chemicals, pesticides, and sometimes diseases from animals having cancer and other things. An employee of a factory farm in Wisconsin told me there was cement as one of the ingredients in their cattle feed.

I think the main reason more runners aren't vegetarian is because 1) they don't know it will help their running, and 2) for many people it is hard to change their eating habits and stick with it.

Let's face it, most vegetarians get occasional cravings for meat because it tastes good. For me it is ribs and hot dogs. I just never give in to the temporary craving, both because it's not good for me and for ethical (killing and cruelty) reasons.

I do think if an elite, meat-eating runner were to become vegan and eat non-processed fruits, vegetables, and grains, he or she would see improvement in their races. Meat-eating runners are fast in spite of their diets not because of them.

Bootsie, back me up.

all it really is is a case of nutrients. how much does your body need based on how much energy you burn? scott jurek is vegan and he's the best ultra-dude on the planet, so clearly it's possible (read: preferable) to be a vegan distance runner. i'm always amused by those who say... "you're vegan? how do you stay healthy?" vegans aren't the ones dying from cancer, heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, obesity. i always turn it around and ask, "you're a meat-eater? how do YOU stay healthy?" you'll notice how the medical profession always says that it's ok to to eat meat, etc. in moderation, which implies that there's something wrong with it in the first place. you never hear a doctor talking about eating brown rice or carrots in moderation. the point is that the most nutrient dense foods are plant-based, especially if we're talking about nutrients without negative consequences, like saturated fat, cholesterol, sulfur (i'll get to that in a minute), hormones, steroids, antibiotics. the sulfur thing is a major drawback of animal proteins, because it's consumption raises our blood ph levels, and the only way we restore normal blood ph is through a leeching process whereby calcium is extracted from our bones and kidneys. ever wonder why the u.s. leads the world in cases of osteoporosis, despite the fact that we consume the most dairy products?

but back to running. as long as you get enough calories, enough carbs, enough proteins, and enough balance all-around, you'll do fine as a vegan runner. and virtually everyone i've ever known who's made the switch reports a huge decrease in the number of illnesses that they get each year. it doesn't make you superman, but i can say that i got my first cold in literally something like 6 or 7 years this winter..... and it was that horrid crud that took most people 4-5 weeks to get rid of...... i kicked it in 7 days. raw garlic cloves and whiskey..... the best vegan cure there is!

give it a try. see for yourself!

Aren't most studies now showing lean beef to be as healthy as chicken or pork? Also red meat contains heme iron which is very important and hard to find elsewhere. Not to say you should go crazy and have a big juicy steak everyday, but it can have it's place in a healthy diet.

No problem at all for athletes. Just look at Scott Jurek and Brendan Brazier.

Check out this article too:

I've been a vegetarian (occasional stint of veganism, but I like to eat out and it's tough if you don't live in CA.) for over thirty years and no ill-effects that I know of.

I eat some eggs and cheese.

No regular supplements.

4:35 mile 2:31:xx marathon at 40.

No health problems.

I'd say go for it.

As a former (chronically anemic) vegetarian, I find that organic lean beef in moderation is one of the most concentrated and beneficial sources of nutrients available to a runner. Also, less grain-based and more whole vegetable/fruit/nut-based eating is essential. It's all about the balance.

bootsie wrote: you'll notice how the medical profession always says that it's ok to to eat meat, etc. in moderation, which implies that there's something wrong with it in the first place.

No it doesn't. It implies there's something wrong with eating top much of it.

The fact that you can die from hyponatremia doesn't mean there's something wrong with drinking water in the first place.

you never hear a doctor talking about eating brown rice or carrots in moderation.

If that were even true, it'd demonstrate that it's rare for Americans to eat too much brown rice or carrots. Far more common to overconsume meat, yes absolutely. But if you told a nutritionist you were living on nothing but brown rice and carrots, she'd advise moderation and diversification.

For the record, some doctors do mention rice and carrots as something to eat in moderation - there's about a zillion diet/nutrition books in print, for instance, whose principles include concern for total carbohydrate intake and/or glycemic index. Carrots are often mentioned as an uncharacteristically high GI vegetable to be eaten in moderation; grains like rice are often suggested to be eaten only in small quantities.

I'm not suggesting I wholeheartedly endorse any or all of these diets, or that a competitive runner should eat the same as the typical sedentary American ought to. Just saying you're misleading.

I don't entirely disagree about factory farms though.

pendejo wrote:

I don't entirely disagree about factory farms though.

what do you mean you don't "entirely disagree" about factory farms?!? how on earth are they even remotely ethically or environmentally defensible? the only people i'm aware of who aren't entirely against them are people who have no idea what they are, or what goes on inside them. for those people, i'd suggest watching

but back to you your meat/moderation argument.... we simply aren't designed to eat meat. period. from the lack of proper acidity in our stomachs, to our jaw design, to our intestinal design, meat is NOT for us. if it were, we wouldn't have to cook it to kill all the bacteria that would subsequently kill us. and to pre-answer the fire argument... we've only had that for 40k years.... there's a loooonnngggg history of hominids prior to that who ate an almost exclusively vegetarian diet.

bootsie wrote: what do you mean you don't "entirely disagree" about factory farms?!?

What I mean is that, yeah, they're nasty in a number of ways. I reckoned correctly that the use of litotes would touch a zealot's nerve. ;-p

To me, the modern factory farm is more about overpopulation (ooh, taboo! We'd rather the whole world goes to hell in a handbasket than actually discuss this - it makes people uncomfortable!) and f'd up priorities (profit über alles), than it is about the evils of animal flesh. But that's a different topic... we were talking about the nutritional angle.

we simply aren't designed to eat meat. period.

If you're right then by golly we sure are dadgummed adaptable! Let's consider how much damage eating outside these design parameters does.

short term: How many T&F world records are held by vegetarians? A small minority, right? For the rest of 'em, wow, there's some meat eaters who ate something they're not designed to, and overcame it so well they were nonetheless able to achieve at the highest levels!

long term: What percentage of people over 100 years old have eaten meat and/or fish for most or all of their lives? Over 80 or 90? If you can assure me it's a miniscule number compared to vegetarians, I'll be impressed. Otherwise, once again, it sure looks like we humans are an adaptable bunch, even to the point of handling regular ingestion of the animal protein - over the course of a whole lifetime! - you suggest we're not designed for.

You can argue all you want from theories about stomach acidity, our distant ancestors, and the supposed need to cook meat (though ever heard of sashimi? steak tartare? Japanese even eat raw chicken breast... plus, are beans unhealthy because I gotta cook 'em?). Best I can tell, you've done nothing to demonstrate radical health consequences arising from eating animals as part of a well-proportioned healthy diet.

Vegans tend to be thinner in general and therefore less at risk for obesity-related chronic diseases but do have their own concerns (~lower bone mass, lower muscle mass--> greater risk of falling and having a hip fracture). One possible reason for lower bone/muscle mass in vegans is because of lower serum IGF-1 as previously mentioned, which stimulates bone formation/tissue repair. IGF-1 is also important during growth/development. However, what's good for bone/muscle is bad in terms of cancer risk. Thus, everything in moderation.

To elimate an entire food group that, in itself, is also a source of essential micro/macronutrients? This is questionable at best, considering our biological-machinery was 'set' during paleolithic times in which our ancestors consumed a diet with 35% meat and 65% plant food. Furthermore, with a stomach pH of 2-3, we are designed just fine to denature and metabolize protein effectively, kill harmful bacteria (who's to say we couldn't eat/adapt to eating raw meat?), AND provide a buffer layer (~mucus, bicarbonate, water) to prevent digestion of our digestive tract.

To argue our ancestors had a shorter lifespan, possibly because of their excessive meat consumption, is moot considering they consumed 65% plant food too! We've come a long ways the last 100 years because of medical technology that allows us to live longer and die of age-related diseases (~heart disease, cancer vs. pneumonia, TB 100 years ago).

Not if there's enough dietary base to buffer the sulfuric acid produced from animal protein, which as mentioned can be obtained from plant food (~potassium citrate-->bicarbonate). Again, this is not so much a problem with animal protein as it is with our significant under-consumption of plant food (only 1/3 of what our ancestors consumed!). Together, animal protein + more plant protein provides greater IGF-1 AND dietary-base to help maintain bone/muscle mass.

This is controversial. When looking at cross-cultural hip fracture incidence, there's a higher incidence in industrialized countries as compared to indigenous countries. One problem though with these studies are differences in genotypic bone structure and lifestyle differences. HOWEVER, when looking within the US, 3 very large studies (~Framingham, Rancho Bernardo, Iowa Women's Health studies) have found that higher animal protein intake is associated with less bone loss in the elderly and decreased risk of hip fracture. On the other hand, those with higher vegetable protein intake had lower BMIs, weighed less, and had smaller waist/hip (~smaller frame), with bone mass significantly correlating with body mass. Thus, body mass may be a better predictor of bone mass than the type of protein consumed

Most of these threads on vegetarians are full of misinformation, typically given by those who aren't vegetarians, and are convinced something bad will happen if you don't eat meat. I've been one for 12 years, never have any problems with anything -- and I don't take supplements or anything. I just eat a normal balanced diet, sans meat. I once had a co-worker tell me there was a critical ingredient for human life in beef, and I'd die if I didn't eat beef. She's an obese fat pig who can't make it up the stairs without wheezing; I've run sub 2:30 for the marathon.

My suggestion to anyone who is actually interested in this is to try it out for awhile and see.

Barfly wrote:

Most of these threads on vegetarians are full of misinformation, typically given by those who aren't vegetarians, and are convinced something bad will happen if you don't eat meat.

Don't know if you're referring to me but my information is from peer-reviewed manuscripts and two semesters worth of grad level micro- and macronutrient coursework. I just gave a presentation a month ago on protein and bone health-- both the good and bad.

It's not that a vegan or vegetarian diet is bad-- it's just not ideal and neither is a high protein diet, as mostly meat, that is typical of the 'average' American. However, athlete's need more protein, and research suggests that a balance between animal and plant protein is ideal in terms of tissue repair.