Ryan Hall's Comments on Jacksonville

no pain, no rogaine wrote:

1) I suspect that Hall, who isn't known as a hot-weather runner, underestimated the heat factor. I don't know excactly how hot it was, but 10-15 seconds a mlie can get sucked up by even temps in the upper 60's-70's, depending on humidity and individual acclimatization (Meb is excellent in the heat- see Athens)

If this is true then NO ONE should want him to wear a USA uniform in China.

Before this race, many people were saying that if you run a good 10K/15K, that means you aren't training properly for a marathon. He's been doing long tempo runs at 4:55 pace. I'd expect 4:30 pace to feel fast.

Well, Ryan Hall has now shown his true colors to me. Physical abilities perhaps to be a champion, but that attitude is horrible, and it explains to me why he so often races very well only to be followed by a relatively poor performance. Yes, he still finished second and just 15 seconds behind Meb, and yes everyone is allowed to just not have it, but he gave up on toughing out fighting for the win after mile 1. He gave up MENTALLY...by his own admission. Horrible.

I now no longer believe he has an chance of mixing it up with best in the world. Kind of ashamed of myself for entertaining it for a while there. Hall will continue to show brilliance on ocassion (when not pressed and when no high expectations are placed on him), but he's not got the heart of a champion. And NO, I'm not saying I do or that I could beat him -- just have to throw that out before someone makes those ridiculous statements. In the world of elite American runners (and he still is that), Ryan Hall won't be able to break out of the mold of one of America's best. It's too bad.

So none of the top Africans give up mentally..?

Every runner goes through those motions and Ryan Hall is no different. You simply do not get out and run world best performances in distance races every time you race, especially if you are gearing up for a major marathon in a months time..

Optional Extras wrote:

So none of the top Africans give up mentally..?

Every runner goes through those motions and Ryan Hall is no different. You simply do not get out and run world best performances in distance races every time you race, especially if you are gearing up for a major marathon in a months time..

I'm not saying he needed to perform well. He could have even just said he didn't have it today. I completely understand that. But, that's not what he said. He's got to go into a race with more than just plan A. If plan A isn't working out, then there's got to be a plan B, and if plan B isn't working, there's got a be a plan C. For him, plan A wasn't working out and so he was done -- if no record in sight, then no way to get up to try to run for the win. Horrible attitude.

my god it's not like he just folded and gave up! he still finished second on a hot day!

tidal osaka wrote:

my god it's not like he just folded and gave up! he still finished second on a hot day!

Second on a hot day is fine. Meb finished first on a hot day. Ryan Hall has outrageous talent, so just because he finished second isn't necessarily a good thing for him. Again though, he's allowed to have a bad day. He could have DNF or finished 20th for all I care. That's fine. What isn't fine (and the reason Wejo started this thread) is his reasoning behind it. Once a record-setting pace wasn't going to happen for him, he was mentally out of it. Wussification factor.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

I'm not saying he needed to perform well. He could have even just said he didn't have it today. I completely understand that. But, that's not what he said. He's got to go into a race with more than just plan A. If plan A isn't working out, then there's got to be a plan B, and if plan B isn't working, there's got a be a plan C. For him, plan A wasn't working out and so he was done -- if no record in sight, then no way to get up to try to run for the win. Horrible attitude.

I agree with the comments Flagpole. And I wonder if mental training is ignored, or at least not given the attention it deserves sometimes. You see elites with tons of racing experience, like Webb, throwing down a ridiculous 100m surge in a 1500m race. Or Ritz, taking it out way too hard at XC Nats to get swallowed up by Goucher and Culp. Hall's race, or at least his self-admitted attitude, is just another example of what I would consider poor coaching or mental preparation.

That's a harsh criticism coming from a chump like me, especially since I make the same mistakes, often. But I don't think it's absurd for me to expect a little more from the elite runners. They should run better than me, and they should run smarter than me.

There is so little focus on the mental and tactical sides of things. On this message board, you see people asking for workout advice, nutrition, pretty much everything. The one thing you don't see much of, is mental preparation, mental conditioning, race tactics, etc, etc. Why is that not focused on more?

On a different subject, I see these high expectations on this board a lot. Every race with a stacked field, over half the people on here think an AR or WR is going to be broken. That just doesn't happen that frequently. Even when the right people are on the right course, with the right conditions, the record still usually doesn't get knocked down.

KnowItAll,I agree with you. One question I have though is...can the mental toughness be taught? I don't know the answer to this question. Perhaps it is a talent just as physical talent is. I'm sure one can learn to pace better, have better racing tactics, but can one learn the toughness factor?

Sometimes I'm amazed at the armchair psychoanalysis done on these threads, nit-picking about people's performances despite the fact that 99% of people on these boards couldn't do a workout with Hall, leta alone stick with him through a mile. So he didn't have it for a race and in post race comments basically said so- and perhaps in not the most elegant way. Does no one get cut any slack about what is said in a post race interview- I'm not good enough to ever warrant one but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be my best quote coming out- I'd just want to be left alone to cool down and recover from a pretty tough race. You guys hang on these comments like they're from some oracle of running that will determine his career- my guess is they're just what a tired guy says after a race when some annoying reporter tries to get him to talk it's the last thing he wants to do. No more, no less. Everyone pretending they can now predict either his greatness or his failure is just stupid.

positivity wrote:

I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on everyone's hopes for Hall, but I truly believe Hall caught lightning in a bottle at Houston and that it was a career race for him.

Must be the same bottle he had at USA XC, New Haven 20k and Drebecen World 20k last year.

If I recall from an account I read of the race, Hall was catching up and cutting the margin between himself and Meb at some point, so he must have regained SOME excitement.

Meb is still better than he's given credit for. I was amazed at how people underestimated him before this race.

Succinct Reactor wrote:

If I recall from an account I read of the race, Hall was catching up and cutting the margin between himself and Meb at some point, so he must have regained SOME excitement.

Meb is still better than he's given credit for. I was amazed at how people underestimated him before this race.

Meb is a solid runner, no doubt, but he has never run a time equivalent to that half marathon Hall threw down earlier, so people SHOULD have been picking Hall to win. Meb didn't go out and destroy the field to win this race. Hall wussed out. As much as Hall pounded Meb the last time, he should have been able to put up at least a fight this time. Sorry to hear he wasn't excited. Translation -- "I wussed out".

No need to defend the guy with poor excuses!

The fear of a drug test was probably the real excuse.

See you at London Marathon. Maybe?

check out this video

http://starrmediadesign.com/grrvideo/Gate%20River%20Run%20Podcast.html

Finishing second to an olympic marathon medalist is "wussing out?"

you've eaten your words once on Hall before Willy, you should really just pipe down.

[quote]Well, Ryan Hall has now shown his true colors to me. Physical abilities perhaps to be a champion, but that attitude is horrible, and it explains to me why he so often races very well only to be followed by a relatively poor performance. Yes, he still finished second and just 15 seconds behind Meb, and yes everyone is allowed to just not have it, but he gave up on toughing out fighting for the win after mile 1. He gave up MENTALLY...by his own admission. Horrible.[\quote]

You nailed it, FW. An admission of a mental defeat because you're not "excited" after falling off ideal goal pace is really hard to understand in a runner of that caliber. Maybe I just expect too much, but I love reading reports from runners of all abilities that they were able to suck it up and plow through even after a bad start. That is something that I admire and try to find within myself. I hope I never give up on a race because I am not "excited." Not every race can be a PR or WR, but you do hope it will be a solid effort, whatever that means on any given day.

I think that anybody that has tried to compete has had a race where you went in with a certain time in your head and it just didn't happen. In doing so you lose your concentration on place, and just worry about time. The old forrest for the trees thing...

I just didn't think things like that would happend to the elite.

A few years ago when Hall gave up on a race he was out the back. In Jacksonville, he still hung on to finish second in a strong field. Maybe his mental toughness is improving along with his fitness. Becoming a world class athlete is a process, it doesn't just happen.