Maybe it could also be reasoned that besides the 'individual' factors (~genetics, motivation), having direction, or the proper guidance, would also be key? Meb and Deena did their homework leading up to the Olympics. They had a team of people that helped them stake out everything on how properly prepare themselves for that single day under the given conditions. Here's a great read on their preparation:
jaguar1 wrote:
Maybe it could also be reasoned that besides the 'individual' factors (~genetics, motivation), having direction, or the proper guidance, would also be key? Meb and Deena did their homework leading up to the Olympics. They had a team of people that helped them stake out everything on how properly prepare themselves for that single day under the given conditions. Here's a great read on their preparation:
Presumably they had an even bigger team of people to help them at New York City this year in perfect conditions? I take it their "proper guidance" could be summed up as a crap-shoot.
I'm old enough to remember that study from when it originally emerged. I recall that it distinguished between the "associative" aspects of running/racing (i.e. being "connected" to internal stimuli, such as pain, effort, etc.) vs. the "dissociative" strategy employed by non-elites (trying not to think about pain, etc.).
How about the guy on the college track team that can stay up with the top 2 or 3 guys in the really tough workouts, but then is a total also ran when it comes to the race? I could never figure that one out. We had a guy who could stay up with the 3:48 1500m guys, the 14 minute 5k guys in the toughest workouts; the 5 x 800m in 210, the 10 x 400m in 62, etc, with minimal rest....but then race time? not even in the top 6 and not breaking 15 minutes for 5k.
What gives?
how would u diagnose this guy wrote:
How about the guy on the college track team that can stay up with the top 2 or 3 guys in the really tough workouts, but then is a total also ran when it comes to the race? I could never figure that one out. We had a guy who could stay up with the 3:48 1500m guys, the 14 minute 5k guys in the toughest workouts; the 5 x 800m in 210, the 10 x 400m in 62, etc, with minimal rest....but then race time? not even in the top 6 and not breaking 15 minutes for 5k.
What gives?
I suspect he's doing his racing in his training. In other words, the real performers have another gear they can access in races - he doesn't.
mdsc83k wrote:
how would u diagnose this guy wrote:How about the guy on the college track team that can stay up with the top 2 or 3 guys in the really tough workouts, but then is a total also ran when it comes to the race? I could never figure that one out. We had a guy who could stay up with the 3:48 1500m guys, the 14 minute 5k guys in the toughest workouts; the 5 x 800m in 210, the 10 x 400m in 62, etc, with minimal rest....but then race time? not even in the top 6 and not breaking 15 minutes for 5k.
What gives?
I suspect he's doing his racing in his training. In other words, the real performers have another gear they can access in races - he doesn't.
these 'guys' are typically head cases....they somehow, someway, get psyched out, once the 'pressure is on'.
well.... wrote:
Self-centeredness. Inability to communicate with others. lacking interests outside of their sport. Self-value nearly completely tied up in their running performance. Insecurity.
Actually, I think this is amazingly accurate for 90% of good runners. It is almost a prerequisite.
uh...no....I disagree....I've seen all of the negative attributes you have described in average and below average runners too.
Sagarin wrote:
well.... wrote:Self-centeredness. Inability to communicate with others. lacking interests outside of their sport. Self-value nearly completely tied up in their running performance. Insecurity.
Actually, I think this is amazingly accurate for 90% of good runners. It is almost a prerequisite.
I disagree, this would be the people who are sub-elite (almost all americans are like this, not the africans). The actual elites (africans) are more like normal non-athletes. They aren't headcases and they can relax outside of their sport. The reasoning behind this is that the actual elites aren't chronically overtrained. Overtraining can cause a lot of these psychological traits you are describing. I believe thats what made Gerry Lingren crazy. I also think american runners today tend to overtrain, thats why very few americans can compete at the international level. This is the sad truth...
I just saw a bit about a football player at USC who had no sacks eight games into the season (surely someone out there is enough of a fan of games of land acqisition to know the guy's name). His coach gave him _The Inner Game of Tennis_, which, simply, says that in order to achieve at an elite level you must stay focused on the moment of competition, rather than someone else's perception of your play, or rankings, or statistics. Sounds like the "inwardly focused" and goal oriented, I reckon.
Proof wrote:
Gerry/Jogger wrote:Could it be that there is a 4th aspect of running most of us don't know about? A secret?
I think YES! And the secret is (promise not to tell) orientation. The WHY of running. Most runners never develop a 'mission' for their effort. They fail to see themselves in terms of the history of track or the social history of the world. Runners can exert an enormous influence on other people that non-runners could never do. We have the opportunity to change behavior patterns. We can litterly change the world.
Look at the history of running in America for example. In 1960 there were a few runners; By 1980 there were millions of runners. What happened between 1960 and 1980 to cause that change? Someone out there decided that through running they could change the world. And it happened!
The 60's through the 80's were the GOLDEN AGE of running in America. We had MORE great distance runners than any country in the world.
Then we started looking introvertedly and the greatness faded away. We run for SELF now. Afraid to work too hard (injury) or too long (doesn't help you anyhow).
Ah! But remember, there is a secret (you promised not to tell): If you run unselfishly for the benefit, happiness, and welfare of other people (with nothing in it for you personally) you run better. MUCH BETTER!!!!
Cute thought now........
PROVE IT.
Lindgren?? Hello McFly wrote:
He did... look up Gerry Lindgren, then insert foot into mouth. Amazing just amazing
Hey Biff .... Where did he name anyone?
You named Gerry, and supposed he ran for the benefit of others. Did he really? Can you prove it.
Oh Biff, while you are at it, can you prove to me that Pre was unselfish and ran for the happiness and benefit of others?
Have fun Biff.
...3 things...
'the arrogance to belive they can do it, with the humblenss to actually go out and do it' (paraphrase) and a high degree of selfishness/egocentricity (this isn't a bad thing unless the person gets so wrapped up in their selfishness that they fail to see how their actions have minor or major negative impacts others)
Proof wrote:
Proof wrote:Cute thought now........
PROVE IT.
Lindgren?? Hello McFly wrote:
He did... look up Gerry Lindgren, then insert foot into mouth. Amazing just amazing
Hey Biff .... Where did he name anyone?
You named Gerry, and supposed he ran for the benefit of others. Did he really? Can you prove it.
Oh Biff, while you are at it, can you prove to me that Pre was unselfish and ran for the happiness and benefit of others?
Have fun Biff.
Did poor little Biff run away, or is he waxing his ......?
denton wrote:
...3 things...
'the arrogance to belive they can do it, with the humblenss to actually go out and do it' (paraphrase) and a high degree of selfishness/egocentricity (this isn't a bad thing unless the person gets so wrapped up in their selfishness that they fail to see how their actions have minor or major negative impacts others)
a fan of herb elliot?
help? wrote:
Sagarin wrote:Actually, I think this is amazingly accurate for 90% of good runners. It is almost a prerequisite.
I disagree, this would be the people who are sub-elite (almost all americans are like this, not the africans). The actual elites (africans) are more like normal non-athletes. They aren't headcases and they can relax outside of their sport. The reasoning behind this is that the actual elites aren't chronically overtrained. Overtraining can cause a lot of these psychological traits you are describing. I believe thats what made Gerry Lingren crazy. I also think american runners today tend to overtrain, thats why very few americans can compete at the international level. This is the sad truth...
I agree
Proof wrote:
Proof wrote:He did... look up Gerry Lindgren, then insert foot into mouth. Amazing just amazing
Hey Biff .... Where did he name anyone?
Have fun Biff.
Did poor little Biff run away, or is he waxing his ......?[/quote]
Read the Gerry Lindgren Story then post your comments. You'll sound more intellegent that way.
Maine miracle wrote:
Read the Gerry Lindgren Story then post your comments. You'll sound more intellegent that way.
You missed it by a mile. Can't you Biff types comprehend anything? Do you really believe ONE and only ONE example (questionable to say the least) proves the post I first requested proof for?
It is you that needs to retrace my participation in this thread, the fool is waiting for your self discovery.
OCD....who the hell else is going to run twice a day, stretch, plyos, diet, stride, ice, lift, monitor heart rates and VO2 Max, and live at elevation....and train for six months just to take 2 or 3 secs off their mile PR...OCD!
Proof wrote:
Did poor little Biff run away, or is he waxing his ......?
Wow, this proof guy's a moron. Lindgren was simply articulating the dogma of running that many elites (and non-elites) DO get caught up in, believing that it has a much greater purpose, which extends far beyond the simple excercise of strength in competition.
Well, one thing that separates them, besides talent, is no doubt the willingness among some to be lab rats, like KB.