Run in with park police

Actually, no. I think that is why they close -- afraid of liability at night.

It's a tricky issue. This is a long path -- runs from downtown Indy all the way up to Westfield, IN...so something like 15 miles long. It's only as wide as a railbed. It's a great place to run, and far better than the streets, many of which don't have sidewalks. I don't typically run at night anyway, but it's my understanding that a lot of people break the rules and the path after dark, because it's far safer than dealing with traffic on city streets.

Dusk is only a vague term if you are trying to get out of ticket.

OK, sunset is 6:04. What time is dusk? Thanks!

Are you serious? You don't understand the concept of dusk?

Are you serious? You can't tell me what time dusk is if I tell you what time the sun sets?

I guess I'm technically breaking the law regularly by bike commuting through a park near my house. I'd much rather do that than take a chance of riding on the road next to rush hour traffic.

I hope you do fight this. And then the judge laughs at you for not (or pretending to not) understand the concept of dusk. Good luck.

monon runner,

by definition, civil twighlight ends at dusk. Go toi this site to see when Civil Twighlight ended on the day you ran.

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html

I checked it out for today and you had at least 1/2 hour after sunset which would be 5:58 pm in Monon.

Thursday

16 November 2006 Eastern Standard Time

SUN

Begin civil twilight 7:06 a.m.

Sunrise 7:36 a.m.

Sun transit 12:32 p.m.

Sunset 5:28 p.m.

End civil twilight 5:58 p.m.

What time was the ticket written up as. If it's before 5:58, you've got a slam dunk.

? wrote:

I hope you do fight this. And then the judge laughs at you for not (or pretending to not) understand the concept of dusk. Good luck.

Well, apparently you can't tell me when it is, either. Sigh. Thanks for trying, though!

I would also file a complaint with the Parks service regarding this officer. You have a right to request a definition of an ambiguous law in the name of not breaking it. Whenever I get pulled over in a strange town and ask what the speed limit is because I don't know it, I'm never given a more severe penalty for asking. that's just wrong.

Well, you've actually figured this out for me, and I appreciate that. The ticket was from last Saturday, and here's the data:

11 November 2006 Eastern Standard Time

Sunset 5:32 p.m.

End civil twilight 6:01 p.m.

The ticket was for 6:04, he probably stopped me before 6:01, but since the ticket says 6:04, I'm GUILTY AS CHARGED. Thanks for the help.

there are a lot of sex cruisers posing as runners at night in the forest. thats why there are rules that the park is off limits or else the park will be filled with condoms and semen.

Monon Runner wrote:

Well, you've actually figured this out for me, and I appreciate that. The ticket was from last Saturday, and here's the data:

11 November 2006 Eastern Standard Time

Sunset 5:32 p.m.

End civil twilight 6:01 p.m.

The ticket was for 6:04, he probably stopped me before 6:01, but since the ticket says 6:04, I'm GUILTY AS CHARGED. Thanks for the help.

But you spent some time arguing with him and he had to call you in, get a response back from dispatch, find his book, pen, and wedge his fat a$$ into the car, and THEN look at his watch so the the actual time was probabably 5:59 pm. Plus there were no leaves on the trees so there was more light.

YOU GOTTA FIGHT.....FOR YOUR RIGHT....TO RUUUUUUNNNNNN - HEY!!!

If you're anything like me this shit will stick in your craw for some time. It is not the intent of the law to make a runner stop his workout and exit the park because he may be infringing on the moment of dusk.

I've had a number of situations like this in my 40 years of running. I once had a cop stop me in Dallas for crossing a street on a sunday pre-dawn run. He mad me go back across the street and go down to a crosswalk to run. All the time shining his spotlight on me and threatening to "write me up."

A watercompany officer had my pass suspended because I was coming out of the woods at dusl without ID. He claimed I was in there to "chop down Christmas trees." Difficult to do in running tights, t-shirt and most importantly no saw or axe.

Fight it. I've beaten a few of these here in Eugene. The rangers never show......

Fight it. Be very respectful and professional in court. Ask the ranger to define dusk. Have several definitions handy that have been mentioned in this thread. Go to the State Park departments website, they should have it defined here. I know for hunters it is well defined, they will spell out 30 minutes past sunset.

If you are well prepared and respectful sometime the judge will let you off or at least cut down the fine for you acting like a professional.

I worked as a bailiff for a short time and I've seen this happen. Smart asses almost never win in court when it comes down to their word against an officers.

Fight it. You're four blocks from home and this guy wants to make you a lawbreaker over what sounds like about four minutes.

Especially if you were down anywhere below Fall Creek Parkway, your very presence was actually making the trail safer. But don't bring that up, these people aren't rational.

Plus, I thought they wanted this (the Monon) to be a commuter resource and not just a recreational resource. That ain't gonna work very well with a dawn to dusk rule.

Man this is just so Hoosier. Good luck to you.

Haven't there been a few people beat up on the Monon in the last year? I think I remember reading that so the cop was probably trying to keep you from running after dark again in the future. I believe people have been hit on bikes and walking at intersections lately on the Monon, but I am not sure if they were all at night.