SEBASTIAN COE; The best of All Time

Mbwa is correct. It is entirely possible to look up to a runner of another nation and hue. Legions of skinny pale folks (like me) would agree with my assertions that Abebe Bikila is the best marathoner ever and Jesse Owens the best sprinter-jumper (I put Carl #2; Jesse's world LJ record lasted something like thirty years). Logical criteria for judging Coe and others have to include whom they beat, how many records, how long the records lasted, and how many medals. Taken together, I put Coe and Snell together on rung one (multiple golds and records, and Coe's 800m record lasting 16 years was phenomenal); Morceli and Elliot next (one gold each, 1500/mile record each, and each beat everyone worth beating); and El-G I put with Ryun (lots of records, one silver). From my point of view, though, being put with Ryun is no insult. Until El-G wins an Olympic gold, he's not moving up (no, the WCs are still not the same as the Olympics). Have to admit to a soft-spot for Bayi (the best front-runner ever . . . the man had cojones) and Walker (first under 3:50 and one gold). By the way, perhaps a separate thread, but my vote for best all around runner: Kip Keino (medals at 1500, steeple, 5k, and a threat at 10k), and last I checked he was a jet-black Kenyan (. . . who has spent his career running an orphanage in Kenya and raising a family -- no way do I want my accomplishments compared to his when I'm trying to bluff my way into heaven).

El Caballo my friend, you are sadly mistaken. I lived all through the Coe/Ovett days, and have always been the absolute BIGGEST Seb fan (still am). He NEVER lost a 1500/mile of consequence to Ovett, and generally owned him at the distance. ALSO, Ovett NEVER outkicked Seb at the mile, and NEVER ran 3:46 (you may be thinking of Cram). Ovett's best ever mile was 3:48.4; a record that lasted 48 hours before Seb broke it running 3:47.3. Coe also ran 3:29.7, just missing the WR of 3:29.4. Ovett's best was 3:30.4. Ovett never broke 1:44, while Coe did it 7 or 8 times with a best of 1:41.7 22 yrs ago!!!! Coe's 2:12.1 1000m shattered the WR by 1.4 seconds. Ovett never got near that. Seb is the only man in history to win consecutive Olympic 1500 titles, beating Ovett(3rd) in 1980 and Cram (2nd) in 1984. True, Ovett was a great one, but he was no Seb Coe. No way.

Saïd Aouita was not too bad asshole, look it up.

trackhead wrote:

To have that kind of competitive range from 1500m to the marathon and everything inbetween is unrivaled by any other runner in history.

Grab a history book and look up what Paavo Nurmi did. That guy was way more dominant than Geb was/is. Nurmi held 25 world records at every distance from the 1500 to 20k and the 1 hour run. Not only that but he had some awesome olympic performances winning 9 gold medals and 3 silver medals in 3 olympic games.

I am well aware of Nurmi and his incredible domination of the 1920s however the competetion of the past ten years in which Gebrselassie has performed has no doubt been far stiffer than anything experienced when Nurmi ran.

Ovett beat him in the biggest race the two ever had against each other the Moscow 800 meters; so Ovett proved he is better than Coe.

Coe was quite lucky in 84 to even be selected to the British Team, politics got him there, Peter Elliot had beaten him and deserved to represent Britian, maybe we'd be talking about Peter Elliot.

Average_Joe wrote:

Coe had the most perfect running form I've ever seen. They used to call his style "poetry in motion". Just look at any late-race photos of him. He always looks smoother than anyone else in the race. He also had the best kick of any miler I've ever seen.

obviously you have never seen Wilson Kipketer run.

and with regards to the "best kick call" Morceli had the best kick OF ANY miler and no-one has bettered that since

I believe the reason why athletes in the 800m are not performing as well is due to the many meetings available and the possibility to now earn a genuine living out of track running.

Seb Coe could never be accused of over racing, and he still utilised the old system of periodisation with intent. Something which doesn't seem to be possible with Indoor - Outdoors and so on.

Wilson Kipketer is conpicuous by his absence at present ..

800m running [IMO] has never been more exciting than now, with a host of top class runners in the distance...

Absurd. Coe was the best in the world and proved it by running away frm Cram in the last 200 to win back to back Oly 1500 titles (the only man ever to do it). Luck has nothing o do with winning. Talent does.

Also, Ovett has a TOTAL of ONE gold and ONE Bronze medal. Coe has TWO golds, TWO silvers. His 800 and 1000 records stood for a incredible 16 and 17 years respectively.

This seems like a difficult argument, and will not be resolved objectively.

One could say that Ovett was a better 800m runner than Coe because he blew Coe away in TWO major championship finals. The 1978 European Champs Ovett was 2nd and Coe was 3rd. Ovett went on to win the 1500m later on in the Championship.

Then in the 1980 Olympics in Moscow Ovett simply blew the field away including Coe in a relatively tactical 800m final - who cares about times ? Not bad for someone who finished fith in his national cross country championships in the late 70's. Ovett had an amazing range of ability.

The 1984 LA games were unfortunate for Ovett, he was in great shape leading up to the meet but his health was affected quite badly by the LA smog. He still made the finals of both the 800m and the 1500m.

Ovett also has a Commonwealth Gold medal at 5000m in 1986 - Coe does not have a Commonwealth medal of any colour.

They were both great runners - can't we leave it that ? I guess not.

If you want someone of scary ability from the 1980's then you've got to consider Aouita. He won a gold in the 5000m in LA and then FOUR years later in Seoul he steps all the way down to 800m and despite carrying a bad hamstring injury he wins a bronze in the event behind Joaquim Cruz and Paul Ereng. Incredible, an Olympic 5k gold medalist moving down to 800m and getting a bronze in the Olympic final. I don't think that Coe or Ovett had that range of ability.

Dustin Hoffman wrote:

This seems like a difficult argument, and will not be resolved objectively.

They were both great runners - can't we leave it that ? I guess not.

No - because that's all part of the fun!!!

Everyone will have their opinion, but I can't imagine anyone saying Ovett was as good at 800m as Coe. Coe is the greatest 800m runner in history. His times at 800m/1000m were yrs ahead of anyone else. Coe was the big favorite n the 1980 Oly 800, and ran a very poor tactical race finishing second to Ovett. He was WELL back with 100m to go and stormed by all but Ovett to get the silver medal. Days later, in the 1500m, he ran away from Ovett with 400 to go (last 800 of 1:49) to take Gold. Ovett was only able to finish third behinf Straub. Again, Ovett's 800 times are nowhere NEAR Coe's. He never broke 1:44 (believe). Coe ran 1:41.7! There's little comparison at that distance.

Certainly Aouita had better range, and was much better at 5000m than the others. But Coe was an absolute killer at 800/1000/1500, and his medals/records prove it.

No doubt, all of these guys were terrific.

If we're playing the would've could've should've game

how about Don Paige in the mix? USA born. 'Nova grad.

At his prime he was up there with those guys.

Oft injures, he never really settled into his game.

He beat Coe head to head in '79 in Sestriere Italy.

Paige was smart, tough, and smooth.

He won't admit it, but many feel he WOULD HAVE jacked

Coe in Moscow.

Great guy. Definitely giving back to the sport.

He is paying Villanova back what his scholarship

was worth. Can you imagine if everyone did that?

celeriter wrote:

Great guy. Definitely giving back to the sport.

He is paying Villanova back what his scholarship

was worth. Can you imagine if everyone did that?

Like when he broke into my room and stole my TV over break? For it he was booted off of the team for a year (Nova called it an injury).

Great guy giving back to the sport, or common thief? Everyone at Nova knows what really happened.

Becks wrote:

Average_Joe wrote:Coe had the most perfect running form I've ever seen.

obviously you have never seen Wilson Kipketer run.

Yes I've seen Kipketer. Obviously you've never seen Coe. Don't confuse speed with good form. Kipketer broke Coe's 800 but never looked half as good as Coe while doing it.

Actually a close second to Coe in the good form department would be Ibrahim Hussein. But that takes us into the world of marathoners which is a digression

Yeah, Coe went out in a psychotic 49.3 for the first 400 in that race. Gotta wonder what he was thinking there. Olaf Beyer ended up winning the race.

Coe has two Olympic Gold medals in the 1500. All that Ovett got was a bronze in 1980. And that was supposed to be HIS event (although Coe owned the world record).

Agreed.

Also agreed.

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Yes, Paige was a great one. More of an indoor runner (where he set several WR's) than an outdoor runner (where he was also great). Saw him run 2:04.8 (I believe) to break his own WR in the 1000y. Also had the privelege of meeting him after I ran an indoor 2mile my freshman yr. Certainly seemed like a good guy (although that TV incident didn't sound too good).

Best 1500m runners of all time in this order:

1. Morceli

2. Coe

3. El G

just my opinion. Morceli dominated the mile much like El G has but got the gold medal (ironically when El G fell down in 96 and might have won). Morceli lost in 92 after getting boxed in and then couldn't chase down Cacho who obviously he should have beaten in that race. Morceli had gears that El G clearly does not have. I think Morceli would beat Coe head to head w/out a rabbit. His long kick from 400m out was unbelievable. Coe won 2 golds but did not dominate the era like Morceli did.