Emily Pidgeon out of World Juniors?

Why could the coach not have contact with the athlete at the World Cross ? Surely the athletes stayed in a hotel and parents and coach have lots of access there. Even at the course it is usual for athletes and coach to meet up - who hasnt seen Steve Benson in those situations ?

to give emily a fair chance then you need to get rid of farrow. even the radcliffes have advised against some of the training she is doing, she is training full on adult training and mileage so ok she'll improve for a while and be very good but what happens when she's older and needs to step it up, there is only so far you can take your mileage and sessions without the body breaking down.

Wasn't he up on rape charges at the time? If that's the case then I have to side with UKA not allowing him into the team hotel. If they didn't know whether he was clear or not and surely if your child was part of the team, without you as parents you wouldn't want them being able to wonder around the hotel with a potential rapist around. I know that sounds over the top or mean - sorry. But if he had been charged for it, where would UKA have stood allowing him to mingle with junior girls.

As a parent of one of the junior girls who travelled to that world cross at the time I was pleased he would not be allowed in the hotel as it wasn't a risk i was willing to take.

I believe becasue at the time the coach was involoved in a rape allegation involving another athlete and is still I believe suspended, UKA were simply covering their backs, imagine if teh Daily Mail had got hold of that!

I think Farrow is feathering his own nest with these performances from very young athletes and sees himself as some kind of master coach. The fact is these children and they are children in some cases are doing the training workload of full time athletes, if his methods are so remarkable why has no senior distance runner sought his advice?

Thank you, I think that is a really good point.

I run for Ireland anyway.

Me?

the only thing I would like is for an athlete of her calibre to be able to prepare for a major championship the way that she feels is most effective, and I don't mean cost effective.

The general thrust of the posts on this site appear to suggest that the problem is the coach and not the athlete. Doesnt that make it even more disturbing that she isnt getting the chance to run in the World (junior) Championships for the second time this year ?

I assume that Emilys parents do not have an athletics background and therefore rely heavily on the coach for input and direction. If that input were flawed then they presumably wouldnt be aware ?

A question to any of the coaches posting on here - if Emily split from David Farrow would you like to coach her ?

Pidgeon fancier wrote:

A question to any of the coaches posting on here - if Emily split from David Farrow would you like to coach her ?

Firstly, I'm not a coach. Just wanted to get that out there before posting.

My first reaction to your question would be to say "Hell Yes!", after all it's not everyday that an athlete with that sort of talent and determination fall onto your lap.

But then you have to consider the situation with her parents. They seem to be very involved with her career as an athlete, whether in a good way or not they are very involved.

She is enormously talented but comes with a lot of baggage.

Personally though I would jump at the chance to coach her.

Should UKA have any say in how an athlete prepares ? If Pidgeon decided to train in Rekyavik and fly directly in to Beijing on the day of her race you would hope that UKA would question the preparation.

This is a team of juniors. They are not yet of the standard that they can take themselves and a small team of experts away to a private venue like Paula did before Athens. Even that went wrong, and with hindsight Paula would have been better off with the rest of the team in Cyprus.

If its good enough for Paula as a senior then it should be good enough for Pidgeon as a junior.

UKA have not really showered the country with championship medals... have they?

The incompetence seems to run rampant. And why are you bent on trying to destroy a successful athlete, by forcing her to change to satisfy people who only seem to deliver very little???

But then again the objective may not be the performance that matters...

Also regarding World X; it is not her fault that the team could not do well without her, is it?

As an aside when the Swedish federation tried to bully athletes to sign a similar contract all the stars told them to stuff it...

I'm curious about those who comment on the group's purported training. Does anyone posting here so far know in detail what they do, not just a single session which in isolation may look like hard work, but in the context of day by day, week by week, season by season? Several of the coachees have a training age of several years so whilst they are chronoligically young for sure that doesn't of itself mean that having them doing a lot of running, regularly, with some of it hard (no way am I going to specify any numbers here), is in itself a way to longer term burnout. Let's not forget that, amongst other egs one could use, Cram ran a 3.57 mile whilst age 17; Ovett a 3.59 mile at age 17 so given what both went on to achieve as seniors one can take it that A - they trained hard and often to run that quick at 17 and B - longer term it worked bloody well.

Comments on the sponsorship/media stuff they are involved in. In last weeks AW I was amused/dismayed to read the OG Minister (and boss of the Sports Minister) so helpfully hanging a metaphorical 2012 OG Gold round a 17 year old's neck in a big public forum. This is the same politician who signs off funding schemes such as TASS where funds are used to provide Performance Athlete Lifestyle Support, Media Awareness training etc. The journalist himself hasn't been averse to picking out early teenage starlets for 2012 for his own national newspaper duties. Vicious circle.

If Pidgeon had designed a better plan than the Macau version then I would have hoped that it would have been considered. However that doesnt seem likely or we would have been reading about it by now.

Please show me how I am hell bent on destroying an athlete ?

Can you also explain your comments re incompetence ? It is quite easy to make that sort of suggestion but I would prefer that you support it with fact.

Boy, what a raw nerve that touched...

If you are personally involved, as it seems, maybe you should have paid attention what you are measured by:

1. RESULTS

2. RESULTS

3. RESULTS

as it seems the incompetence is on at least two levels:

1. failure to realise what you are measured by, and

2. the lack of RESULTS

I guess these things might be considered as a start...

By the way, how fast do you think Emily had run, if only UKA would have been able to handle the coaching?

Just curious...

Lets start with the easy bit. I dont think that Emily would have run anywhere near as fast at this age if she had been coached by anybody other than David Farrow. However I do not know if the regime being followed will lead Emily to be the best possible senior she can be. As for UKA handling her coaching - what does that mean ? UKA doesnt coach anybody. It does employ some endurance coaches, Rowland, Nuttall and Woods - do you mean one of these ?

Results. What results or lack of them do you mean. Again I would ask that you provide some substance for a reasonable discussion rather than your impersonation of Harry Enfields Kevin.

As a school teacher involved with young people and the insurance/ welfare issues involved in taking a party of what are in reality kids away in a party I can fully undertsand UKA's standpoint on this issue. If every athlete in the team decided to go to their own venue to prepare the trip would be a nightmare and the effect on team performances would only be blamed upon UKA. The fact is UKA are looking long term at holding camps, training venues in the run up to the Beijing Olympics, if it is good enough for our seniors it is good enough for our juniors. When a group such as UKA is involved in taking a team especially a junior team to a championship the ahve to do what is right for the good of the team and the whole rather than the individual, this is common sense and not victimisation, Farrow simply doens't wnat his athlete coming under the influence of anybody else. The people in charge of endurance at UKA have vast experience, not just in terms of coaching but in terms of preperation, facilities and winning medals at the highest level in our sport, Farrow and co. have so far had success in kids races with an athlete who is obviously very talented, when he has a wealth of experience, has coached at the highest level and starts to use common sense in the preparation of his athletes rather than using them to further his own disgruntlement with the administration he might have a point.

As far as results; when was the last international championship (European, Worlds, or Olympic Games), you are happy with?

Most people would say a pretty good memory is needed to remember a really good one...

Also the streamlining of incompetence... ...known as coaching certification, rather then spreading information about how for example Kenyans, and Ethiopians train; ie cutting edge information...

'known as coaching certification, rather then spreading information'

A lot of this is to do with insurance issues, local councils only accepting responsibility for injuries if the athlete is being advised by a certified coach when they are injured etc... everybody knows it doens't really mean anything in terms of knowledge etc... however to talk about the spread of information regarding training practices, can you think of a more secretive group?

What or when I am happy has nothing to do with any equation. Before you can assess UKs performance in major championships I think you need a review of all of the changes taking place within our sport. I am only really interested in endurance, so on that basis, how well have our scandanavian friends done recently, Germany, French excluding the tainted north african brigade, Italy, Belgium, Holland, Portugal. Spain seem to be an exception, but then there have been a few 'failures' there.

It would be worthwhile looking at the results of the Spanish Junior Champs last weekend - I only looked to see how Pidgeon had run but was very surprised how bad they were. Hard to see where their sub 28 min men are coming from.

As for the coach education system - it has been very poor at best. BMC and UKA's Endurance Init have provided some decent speakers over the last few years, but that clearly isnt enough.

Teachers pet wrote:

'known as coaching certification, rather then spreading information'

A lot of this is to do with insurance issues, local councils only accepting responsibility for injuries if the athlete is being advised by a certified coach when they are injured etc... everybody knows it doens't really mean anything in terms of knowledge etc... however to talk about the spread of information regarding training practices, can you think of a more secretive group?

A lot of information is available about training, but I do not know of ANY coordinated effort whatsoever to collect, AND make available various training programs used by successful athletes... as well as training related research...

...so to start using excuses as they are so "secretive" before one has even started is the same as to admit defeat, but then again why would one want to try to move forward in a structured way when one can launch the next "Big Thing"...

As far as the coaching certification; if we can just make it an international standard we will get a "level playing field..."