according to Paula, you run faster when you are happy.
maybe marriage and a newborn will be the factor that pushes him to sub13 or maybe it will ruin his career altogether.
I predict a little ritz boy during the summer of 2007.
according to Paula, you run faster when you are happy.
maybe marriage and a newborn will be the factor that pushes him to sub13 or maybe it will ruin his career altogether.
I predict a little ritz boy during the summer of 2007.
Flagpole Willy wrote:
3) Kennedy was 25 when he ran 13:14 for his then PR (just two seconds faster than Ritz, and Ritz is still just 23).
.
Flag, I don't have the time nor the energy to continually refute your comments, but if you wonder why you don't get a lot of respect on here, the above is exhibit A! We (I and others) have corrected you on this mis-statement of yours COUNTLESS times. Do you have dementia???
BK RAN 13:02 WHEN HE WAS STILL 23 YEARS OLD.
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/athlete%3D1377/That is a far-cry from "Kennedy was 25 when he ran 13:14 for his then PR." I mean c'mon......if you did once or twice, it would be an honest mistake. But you've mis-represented Kenney's "age-PR's" SEVERAL times and we've linked you to the FACTS several times. So............CUT IT OUT. (could you see how this be annoying??? )
And now that the FACTS have been presented, does that change anything for you ?? (probably not). Ritz has NOT alread run as fast as Kennedy did at a younger age. In fact, Ritz has until the end of this year to do run a 13:02 if he wants to match what Kennedy's did at the same age. He still has 13 seconds to go after ALREADY making a huge breakthrough. And 13 seconds off a a recent PR ain't chump change
(I am sure you had other errors in your post, but I don't have time to correct them all. But please don't repeat THIS one again).
You know Flagpole, I have generally been on the same page with you, but there is a far cry between sub-13:10 and sub-13:00. No American in recent history has been able to crack the 13:10 barrier since Kennedy, despite all of the talent and hard work. I'm not saying Ritz can't do it, but he does not possess superior footspeed. Heck, Mottram was a 3:48 miler when he ran that 12:55. I would bet that Bob Kennedy was in shape to go much faster than his mile PR when he broke 13:00 as well.
Ritz needs to prove that he can run fast over 3000 and that he can indeed break 13:10 before we start talking about sub-13:00. I believe he has a much better chance at a sub-27 10k then sub-13 for 5k.
I think that the reason that so many say that he can't do it is because we all are so inhibited about our and other's running abilities.
For so long Aouita was the only man to break 13 until Geb stepped up and took a couple seconds off his time.
Then when Geb took it to 12:44, sub 13 wasn't a big deal and now guys are going under 13 in droves.
For all of the reasons you stated, Ritz CAN go under 13.
Will he? I'd say probably not but in this case I wouldn't say that he "can't" do it.
People here are very quick to say what cannot be done or who won' win. It seems rare for someone to shout out about a positive prediction which makes Vipam's Bekele thread so intriguing.
Great White Hope wrote:
You know Flagpole, I have generally been on the same page with you, but there is a far cry between sub-13:10 and sub-13:00. No American in recent history has been able to crack the 13:10 barrier since Kennedy, despite all of the talent and hard work. I'm not saying Ritz can't do it, but he does not possess superior footspeed. Heck, Mottram was a 3:48 miler when he ran that 12:55. I would bet that Bob Kennedy was in shape to go much faster than his mile PR when he broke 13:00 as well.
Ritz needs to prove that he can run fast over 3000 and that he can indeed break 13:10 before we start talking about sub-13:00. I believe he has a much better chance at a sub-27 10k then sub-13 for 5k.
13:10 is a far cry from 13:00. I agree.
No one other than Kennedy and Lagat have broken 13, that is true, but what does that have to do with the cost of tea in China? Lots of hard work in there yes; talent equal to Ritz (other than Webb)? NO.
Ritz simply does not have the speed of strength to run a sub 13 5k.
Ritz will finish his career with a 13:10 5k. The Marathon he is running this fall will do him little good on the track.
Are you kidding that BK and NL don't have as much talent as Ritz or Webb? Did you forget that BK won the NCAA cross title as a FRESHMAN?!? and Bernard Lagat has the #2 1500m ever?
NL is meant to be BL = Bernard Lagat
cray much? wrote:
Are you kidding that BK and NL don't have as much talent as Ritz or Webb? Did you forget that BK won the NCAA cross title as a FRESHMAN?!? and Bernard Lagat has the #2 1500m ever?
Wasn't referring to those guys, but everyone else (thought that was clear -- sorry).
To be honest though, as much as I respect Bob Kennedy, I honestly do think that Ritz has more talent than he did. Kennedy was an amazing preparer though, and he stayed injury free for long stretches. Certainly that is a talent too, so we'll have to see if Ritz can do that. Sometimes people get put on a pedestal when they've held a record for a while. Doesn't mean there's disrespect when someone thinks that record can be broken. It is easier to be the hunter than the hunted, so even if they are equal in ability, Ritz has the advantage.
cray much? wrote:
Are you kidding that BK and NL don't have as much talent as Ritz or Webb? Did you forget that BK won the NCAA cross title as a FRESHMAN?!? and Bernard Lagat has the #2 1500m ever?
I think Flagpole is referring to my comment about the current crop of Americans who have run @ 13:10 like Webb, Gouch, Broe, etc., but not broken it (i.e. these guys don't posses the same talent as Ritz). The point I'm making is that Ritz has yet to show us that he can get NEAR 13:00, let alone 13:10. True, he did run that 13:16 a few weeks back, but he has been less than stellar over 3000 meters. Gouch and Lincoln are a lot faster over the two-mile distance.
I would agree that Ritz has a boatload of talent and may yet get under 13:00, but there has been no indication of that. If he ran a 7:35 3000 or faster, then that's another story. He does get better as the distance lengthens, and I do believe he has a legitimate shot at sub-27:00 eventually.
shut your hole with that pole!
For the record, I hope Ritz breaks 13 one day. Same with Hall, Webb, Dobson, Teg and just about any other American you can name.
That said, talent doesn't amount to a hill of garbage if you can't stay healthy, Flagpole. You can't run well if you keep getting hurt. Unfortunately, that is one area that BK has Ritz beat.
I mean, I am prodigiously talented too. Where's my Olympic medal? Why haven't I broken 13 yet?
You continually argue that "Ohhh well Ritz has more talent than anyone else blah blah blah." It gets really annoying, as "talent level" is irrelevent in this case. Everyone at the elite level(yes, even in America) is supremely talented. Elite competition essentially comes down to who can show up to the starting line healthy.
Talent alone will get you through high school, and college in some cases. Not true in the professional ranks though.
Get it now?
Flagpole Willy wrote:
To be honest though, as much as I respect Bob Kennedy, I honestly do think that Ritz has more talent than he did. Kennedy was an amazing preparer though, and he stayed injury free for long stretches. Certainly that is a talent too, so we'll have to see if Ritz can do that.
What is this ill-defined talent you speak of? That's a serious question. How do you say that Ritz has more talent than, say, Tegenkamp when their PRs are so close?
Talent comes in many forms in distance running, and it may well be that some people who have high natural ability (high natural V02 max or lactate threshold) may have a slightly lowr ability to improve it by training. But we just don't know that.
Please, Flagpole Willy, define what you mean by talent. Otherwise this discussion will always be kind of shapeless.
I think Ritz running NYC is won of the smartest things he could do!
No way Jose wrote:
Ritz does not have the speed or stamina. He ran something like 8:22 at the Pre 2mile in 2005. That's dead on for 13:00 pace, but only 2/3 the distance. If he wants to be a good 5k or even 10k runner he needs to get his mile time down and his strength up.
BTW, does anyone else think running NYC is the dumbest move Ritz could have evere made? It's almost like he wants to do everything he can to screw himself over. I don't understand it.
Ritz running the marathon makes about as much sense as Webb's 10k run earlier this season. Both these talented runners are headed for self destruction.
It is total madness.
I think these runners like Webb and Ritz are trying to emulate Prefontaine and run everything. Pre run everything and never got a medal, but he was a bad ass. Maybe that is more important. Maybe these guys like most Americans want instant gratification and want success is all events at once. Whatever, it may be it will lead only to injury and missed dreams.
Nuts.
Watch Ritz get injured again next year and flop at the World Championships.
I suppose you'd rather he get crushed by in every golden league meet for a few more years. His PRs are 13:15 and 27:35, these are no longer world class times. They're great American times. Ritz wants to be the best in the world and the only place that could happen is on the roads.
I theink ritz wanted to get away from webb in the amrahton and webb wanted tog et away from willis in the 1500.
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
BK RAN 13:02 WHEN HE WAS STILL 23 YEARS OLD.
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/athlete%3D1377/.
Actually Kennedy was almost 24 (less than 30 days to his birthday) when he ran that 13:02 (he ran 13:05 two weeks before that). He was 39 days short of being 23 when he ran 13:14.91
1500 [mile]
Age Pre Kennedy
16 [4:29.1] 3:53.29
17 [4:13.8] 3:47.69
18 [4:06.0] 3:43.16
19
20 [3:57.4] 3:38.32
21 3:39.8 3:39.10
22 3:38.1 [3:58.1]
23 [3:58.3] 3:38.74
24
Mile
Age Pre Kennedy
16 4:29.1 4:11.96
17 4:13.8 4:06.6
18 4:06.0 4:03.63
19 3:57.4 4:00.99
20 3:57.4 3:58.11
21 3:56.7 4:02.22
22 3:54.6 3:58.11
23 3:58.3 3:56.21
3000 [2 mile]
Age Pre Kennedy
16 [9:42.1] 8:27.3
17 [9:01.5] 8:38.0
18
19 [8:40.0] 7:58.92
20 [8:33.2] 7:48.02
21 7:45.8 7:53.02
22
23 7:42.6 7:38.67
2 mile [3000]
Age Pre Kennedy
16 9:42.1 9:11.9
17 9:01.5 [8:38.0]
18 8:41.5
19 8:40.0
20 8:33.2 [7:58.92]
21 8:19.4 [7:53.02]
22 8:24.6
23 8:18.29 [7:38.67]
24 8:24.4i 8:14.53
5000
Age Pre Kennedy
18 13:52.8 14:21.40
19 13:39.6 13:42.8
20 13:30.4 13:22.17
21 13:22.8 13:28.8
22 13:22.4 13:14.91
23 13:21.87 13:02.93
24 13:23.8 13:03.37
10000
Age Pre Kennedy
23 27:43.6
24 28:09.4
Ritz will be a solid 13:10 runner like Goucher. He is no Bob Kennedy. Like Steve Scott and Johny Gray a runner like Kennedy comes around every quarter century.